Should KU & KSU join the MVC?

[GorHoops]

You missed my point, stadiums are HUGE in this deal, but not the quality, just the size. NU may be crappy, but it holds 80,000. Do you really think the SEC or B10 is going to want a crappy football school with a crappy 50,000 seat stadium? No. I am not saying this with the idea the KSU is better, but I know that KSU is not going to the SEC or the B10. I know this. What I am saying is, KU isn't going either, not with their football program and stadium, and fan interest in football. Also, give me a break with the, "I see KU shirts in NYC, never KSU." That is stupid. We see what we want to see. I wore my KSU gear with the Powercat on the front in California this summer, nowhere did it say KSU or Kansas State, and I had numerous people say, "hey, K-State." I guarantee I can find people walking around in NYC, Boston, LA, etc. wearing KSU gear. I saw one person in California in a week wearing a KU shirt, ONE person. National sports fans know KSU, and if you think they don't you are just biased. How many times did Al Michaels mention Kansas State last night during the opening NFL game that every NFL fan in America was watching, as they talked about Jordy and Sproles both scoring Td's? I seem to remember Lebron tweeting about the "salute" from the Pinstripe Bowl, as he watched it on tv. Do you think Lebron has any twitter followers? Did people not buy the SI issue last year with Jacob Pullen on the cover?? I seem to remember the KSU/Xavier game being considered the "game of the 2010 NCAA tourney." I am sure no national sports fans watched that game. I am sure no national fans were paying attention when Bob Huggins was hired at KSU. I am sure no national fans were paying attention when Jordy had 9 catches in the Super Bowl. I am sure no national fans were watching when the "greatest college football team in history was beaten in the Big 12 title game. The entire country of sports fans know KSU very well, the Powercat is a national sports symbol. Does that mean everyone loves or even likes KSU, no it doesn't, but that doesn't matter, it is about recognition. KU is going to the Big East because that is the conference for which they are the most attractive. KSU is going to the Big East also, but not because of coattail riding.

[shockyhawky]

Most sports writers around the country, including east and west coasts, predict KU, KSU and MU in the Big East if the Big 12 implodes. That would make a 12 football team, 20 basketball team league. I don't think this would help the Shockers schedule a game with KSU or KU.

If OU decides to stay in Big 12, the conference will survive and add BYU, and retain their TV deal with Fox. I really think this is in the best interest of most conferences.

[SubGod22]

You missed my point, stadiums are HUGE in this deal, but not the quality, just the size...in my mind. NU may be crappy, but it holds 80,000. Do you really think the SEC or B10 is going to want a crappy football school with a crappy 50,000 seat stadium? No. I am not saying this with the idea the KSU is better, but I know that KSU is not going to the SEC or the B10. I know this. What I am saying is, KU isn't going either, not with their football program and stadium, and fan interest in football. Also, give me a break with the, "I see KU shirts in NYC, never KSU." That is stupid because it's true. We see what we want to see. That's why I think KSU is in better shape than KU. I wore my KSU gear with the Powercat on the front in California this summer, nowhere did it say KSU or Kansas State, and I had numerous people (2) say, "hey, K-State." I guarantee I can find people walking around in NYC, Boston, LA, etc. wearing KSU gear. I saw one person in California in a week wearing a KU shirt, ONE person. National sports fans don't reall know KSU, and if you think they do you are just biased. How many times did Al Michaels mention Kansas State last night during the opening NFL game that some NFL fans in America were watching, as they talked about Jordy and Sproles both scoring Td's? I seem to remember Lebron tweeting about the "salute" from the Pinstripe Bowl, as he watched it on tv. Do you think Lebron has any twitter followers? (Not that it matters) Did people not buy the SI issue last year with Jacob Pullen on the cover?? Most didn't. But some did gosh darn it. I seem to remember the KSU/Xavier game being considered the "game of the 2010 NCAA tourney." I may only remember that because I love KSU and don't pay much attention to others. I am sure no national sports fans watched that game. I am sure no national fans were paying attention when Bob Huggins was hired at KSU. Even though it was about the controversy of recruiting. I am sure no national fans were paying attention when Jordy had 9 catches in the Super Bowl. I know some were, but not most. I am sure no national fans were watching when the "greatest college football team in history was beaten in the Big 12 title game. I like to inflate my ego by talking up the sad program I follow. The entire country of sports fans know KSU very well, the Powercat is a national sports symbol. At least it is in Manhattan and western Kansas. Does that mean everyone loves or even likes KSU, no it doesn't, but that doesn't matter, it is about recognition. And KSU just doesn't have it. KU is going to the Big East because that is the conference for which they are the most attractive. KSU is going to the Big East also, because of coattail riding.

Fixed

[vtshocker]

You forgot to mention the great media exposure K State got when Coach Martin practically begged Miami to hire him

[SubGod22]

You forgot to mention the great media exposure K State got when Coach Martin practically begged Miami to hire him

[Aargh]

A year ago, the BEast was considering (some say offering) a package deal for MU, KU, and KSU. Three problems:

1) That was a year ago.
2) Mizzou is now in the SEC's sights
3) The BEast is the next likely conference to topple

If KU ends up in the BEast (that's logical - the BEast is pretty focused on Bball), then when that league collapses, the ACC is going to go after the BEasts leftovers. Guess what, the ACC is also a basketball conference. KU is attractive to the ACC. KSU, not so much.

While it's football driving most of the current realignment conversation, basketball is king on the east coast.

A 16-team conference made up of the ACC, the basketball powers from the BEast and KU could negotiate an unbelievable TV package. There are a lot of TV sets on the east coast. Lumping the two east coast power conferences together and throwing KU into the mix could make that conference the wealthiest of all the conferences, even though they'd be the least powerful BCS football conference.

[MoValley John]

You missed my point, stadiums are HUGE in this deal, but not the quality, just the size. NU may be crappy, but it holds 80,000. Do you really think the SEC or B10 is going to want a crappy football school with a crappy 50,000 seat stadium? No. I am not saying this with the idea the KSU is better, but I know that KSU is not going to the SEC or the B10. I know this. What I am saying is, KU isn't going either, not with their football program and stadium, and fan interest in football. Also, give me a break with the, "I see KU shirts in NYC, never KSU." That is stupid. We see what we want to see. I wore my KSU gear with the Powercat on the front in California this summer, nowhere did it say KSU or Kansas State, and I had numerous people say, "hey, K-State." I guarantee I can find people walking around in NYC, Boston, LA, etc. wearing KSU gear. I saw one person in California in a week wearing a KU shirt, ONE person. National sports fans know KSU, and if you think they don't you are just biased. How many times did Al Michaels mention Kansas State last night during the opening NFL game that every NFL fan in America was watching, as they talked about Jordy and Sproles both scoring Td's? I seem to remember Lebron tweeting about the "salute" from the Pinstripe Bowl, as he watched it on tv. Do you think Lebron has any twitter followers? Did people not buy the SI issue last year with Jacob Pullen on the cover?? I seem to remember the KSU/Xavier game being considered the "game of the 2010 NCAA tourney." I am sure no national sports fans watched that game. I am sure no national fans were paying attention when Bob Huggins was hired at KSU. I am sure no national fans were paying attention when Jordy had 9 catches in the Super Bowl. I am sure no national fans were watching when the "greatest college football team in history was beaten in the Big 12 title game. The entire country of sports fans know KSU very well, the Powercat is a national sports symbol. Does that mean everyone loves or even likes KSU, no it doesn't, but that doesn't matter, it is about recognition. KU is going to the Big East because that is the conference for which they are the most attractive. KSU is going to the Big East also, but not because of coattail riding.

Actually, Nebraska holds 85,000, and in two years, the Big 10 expansion project will be complete and it will hold 95,000 but I digress....

Here is a picture of the crane:



Here is a picture of the chick's butt that sat in fromt of us. It is kind of disappointing. She has a great rack but the caboose is marginal...



You see, the current size of the stadium is unimportant. Is there any way that Kansas State could fill a 65,000 seat stadium? I doubt it, you guys do ticket giveaways to fill the stadium you have. And by discounting tickets to bad games, you can never offset the cost of construction of more seats. $20 or $25 a ticket will never cover the cost of building the seat in the first place. I hate to dwell on Nebraska, they are one in a handful of universities that have built their football brand to this level, but every ticket to every game, good or bad, sells for $65 minimum. Plus, every seat, with the exception of the students and the visiting section, has a hefty seat assesment. As I said, I wouldn't expect K-State to get to the l;evel of a Nebraska, but do you honestly think that with the budget K-State has, they could get to 65,000? And I'm not talking selling out every game, but to have a season tiocket base large enough that they could build a 65,000 seat stadium, sell enough season tickets with seat assessments, that it woul;d make more sense for the school to let 5-6,000 seats go unsold rather than discount them?

Now back to that chick's butt, yeah, it was lame. But her rack, oh sweet baby Jesus!!!

[GorHoops]

First of all, who knows what might happen in the future if KU and KSU end up in the Big East, it may or may not crumble, but you sure don't know that, and you also don't know whether KSU would be in or left out of an ACC or whatever. That is all pure speculation on your part. Secondly, I didn't mention Frank "begging" for the Miami job, hey, any press is good press, right? I also didn't mention that I am sure no one noticed when, in the last two years, the #1 team in the country has come to Bramlage for Big Monday and left with a loss, I am sure no one around the country watches Big Monday. Third MoJoe, what are you even talking about with the 65,000 seat stadium thing???? Who mentioned that??? I love how you find it such ammunition to make such a big deal about reduced ticket sales, good lord, that is your ammunition. Reduced priced tickets?? Maybe, in a tough economy, reducing the price to get people to the game to pay for parking, concessions and merchandise, as well as for vendors in the community is a good business decision. I highlly doubt KSU is the only BCS university that reduces prices for non-con games. Yes we know, prices are the same at NU for every game. I am still trying to figure out what Nebraska has to do with this entire conversation. NU is in the Big 10 based on football and football only, the entire remainder of the athletic dept. is a joke, so make sure you rest your laurels on football because that is all you have.

[SubGod22]

First of all, who knows what might happen in the future if KU and KSU end up in the Big East, it may or may not crumble, but you sure don't know that, and you also don't know whether KSU would be in or left out of an ACC or whatever. That is all pure speculation on your part. Secondly, I didn't mention Frank "begging" for the Miami job, hey, any press is good press, right? I also didn't mention that I am sure no one noticed when, in the last two years, the #1 team in the country has come to Bramlage for Big Monday and left with a loss, I am sure no one around the country watches Big Monday. Third MoJoe, what are you even talking about with the 65,000 seat stadium thing???? Who mentioned that??? I love how you find it such ammunition to make such a big deal about reduced ticket sales, good lord, that is your ammunition. Reduced priced tickets?? Maybe, in a tough economy, reducing the price to get people to the game to pay for parking, concessions and merchandise, as well as for vendors in the community is a good business decision. I highlly doubt KSU is the only BCS university that reduces prices for non-con games. Yes we know, prices are the same at NU for every game. I am still trying to figure out what Nebraska has to do with this entire conversation. NU is in the Big 10 based on football and football only, the entire remainder of the athletic dept. is a joke, so make sure you rest your laurels on football because that is all you have.

You're the one that brought up the importance of stadiums and the size of them.

And congrats. Your basketball team is something like 4-400 against KU over the past 25 years or so. KU still wins conference titles there.

Ticket prices are a big deal when it comes to the program. Cheap tickets lead to less funding. Pretty simple stuff.

[MoValley John]

First of all, who knows what might happen in the future if KU and KSU end up in the Big East, it may or may not crumble, but you sure don't know that, and you also don't know whether KSU would be in or left out of an ACC or whatever. That is all pure speculation on your part. Secondly, I didn't mention Frank "begging" for the Miami job, hey, any press is good press, right? I also didn't mention that I am sure no one noticed when, in the last two years, the #1 team in the country has come to Bramlage for Big Monday and left with a loss, I am sure no one around the country watches Big Monday. Third MoJoe, what are you even talking about with the 65,000 seat stadium thing???? Who mentioned that??? I love how you find it such ammunition to make such a big deal about reduced ticket sales, good lord, that is your ammunition. Reduced priced tickets?? Maybe, in a tough economy, reducing the price to get people to the game to pay for parking, concessions and merchandise, as well as for vendors in the community is a good business decision. I highlly doubt KSU is the only BCS university that reduces prices for non-con games. Yes we know, prices are the same at NU for every game. I am still trying to figure out what Nebraska has to do with this entire conversation. NU is in the Big 10 based on football and football only, the entire remainder of the athletic dept. is a joke, so make sure you rest your laurels on football because that is all you have.

The 65,000 was just a pie in the sky, it was to get you to think of the possibilities of Kansas State. It isn't ammunition, it is simply asking you what do you really think the ceiling is for Kansas State football? It was also based on your earlier post about your stadium compared to Kansas's. You called their stadium a dump. I don't think being a dump has anything to do with it, I think it has to do with potential. Potential to grow, to become more relevant, to expand the brand. With that, I asked if you thought your stadium could expand. Afterall, if you become relevant, 50,000 isn't going to cut it.

On a sidebar, I have also never paid to park in Manhattan. Some do, I never have. I'm also sure the vendors love it, but I don't know how, other than helping the local economy and being a good neighbor, discounting tickets does anything beneficial for Kansas State itself.

Furthermore, as for discounting tickets, a few BCS schools do, Kansas does as well. Iowa State even does for a few. These schools also charge a premium when big names come to town. Kansas State does, Kansas does, so does Iowa State. With that, it is an easy deduction that people are paying a premium to watch your opponent, not you. That is one of the few tangible ways you can rate your regional and national following. In reality, Kansas State generates revenue moreso on the brand of their opposition, not on the Kansas State brand itself.

You may ridicule and deride me on that, but I have made a career on advertising and marketing, I do know how you can relate fluctuations in price to determine a product's demand and worth. I haven't checked to see if Mizzou discounts, they probably do to a degree, but I bet they haven't dropped their pants to $10 a ticket.

Now, if you consider this as a whole, is a BCS conference going to be more excited to include a program that relies on their opposition, or a school that can generate interest on their own? I think that is pretty simple. I think the conferences have a pretty good handle on it as well. And with that, considering just how much all schools not in the elite catagory rely on the brand of the opposition, guaging potential, not what is today, does Kansas State have more potential than say, a UNLV, a New Mexico State or even a Nevada? I don't have a good answer for that, but I think they would have something to say. Many of these schools, given the chance, would love to have the opportuunity to state their case.

If you look back at this entire thread, I'm not tossing out personal barbs at you or any Kansas State fan. Other than laughing when you overreacted, I have yet to call you a name one single time. I'm simply asking you and Kansas State fans to step back and really evaluate. The further away from the school you get, the further you divoorce yourself from the emotion, the less attractive Kansas State is. It simply is what it is.

[GorHoops]

I brought up stadiums because many are saying KU is a lock for a conference slot and KSU isn't. My point was, KU really doesn't have many options either, not with there stadium. THAT was my point about stadiums. Also, someone wanted to mention the press KSU got for Frank wanting the Miami job, I simply added another reason why people might know the KSU brand across the country. I think I am finally starting to figure out the rules here on Shockernet. You all love MoJoe, who isn't even a Shocker fan, because he comes on and blasts KSU, which makes Shocker fans feel good about how KSU is no better than WSU. I am a Shocker fan, but when I refute what he says, when I bring up some counter-arguments that are pro-KSU, then I am a villain. Not once have I said one negative thing about WSU in this entire thread, but because I am supportive of KSU, I don't get a voice. KSU is in a BCS conference and will be when this realignment happens. This may make many WSU fans upset, but that is not the fault of Kansas State. KU has done much much much much more over the years to hold WSU back than KSU ever has. Ask your governmental relations people that spend time in Topeka lobbying for WSU, ask them who the biggest obstacle to growth for all of the Regent schools is in this state?? Ask them. I know for a fact that KSU and WSU work together alot to try and fight the beast that is KU in the Statehouse. KU thinks they play by different rules, yet you are all ready to pump them up on this thread and talk about how great their brand is nationally, and so on and so forth. It just makes no sense to me. And then to have some Nub fan bring stuff about black-market merchandise in Tijuana Mexico, good lord, give me a break, so that proves that KU is in the same class as the Yankees. What a joke

[GorHoops]

"It simply is what it is" IN YOUR OPINION. You don't know what these conferences are after any more than I do. Also, I did not compare KU's stadium to KSU's. I said KU is not attractive to the SEC or the Big 10 because of their stadium. No where did I say KSU was attractive either, I did say that I know KSU is not attractive to those conferences. I have one point, and you aren't getting it. My point is, KU has no more options in this conference realignemnt than KSU does, to be honest. I do not believe you when you say KSU is only attractive based on their opponent whereas KU is attractive on their own. Not in the world of football. Both schools are Big East bound, both have limits to their football growth. KU has a very few football fans. See what happens if they lose tomorrow to NIU. You don't think conferences notice that?

[vtshocker]

NIU is actually a decent football team in the MAC that consistently goes to bowl games so a loss wont be a huge surprise but a 10-7 win over Eastern Kentucky is BCS material...that makes you want to scream EMAW

[GorHoops]

Good reply vt, because BCS schools never lose or play close with FCS schools. Virginia Tech didn't lose last year to James Madison, Iowa didn't have to block two field goals to beat UNI, Michigan didn't lose to App. State, etc. So according to you, Va Tech, Michigan, and Iowa weren't playing BCS caliber ball the last few years???????? I actually chuckle at the fans on this thread that have questioned whether KSU is playing BCS caliber football, and is a better fit for MoValley ball. Talk about being biased. So KSU beats UCLA, Texas, KU, A&M, etc. over the last couple of years, but are a better fit for the Valley? Again, you may not like KSU, but KSU has been one of the top football programs in the Big 12 over the entire life of the conference. To say anything else is simply just hating.

[Kung Wu]

Move to Off Topic?