WSU Softball vs Butler CC

[Quick Pitch]

Anyone going to go watch our softball team play Butler Juco Saturday?
First game is noon. I am hoping for a better game than Eastern Oklahoma gave us.

[Quick Pitch]

Well I guess Butler did give us a better game than Eastern OK. They beat us both games 7-2 and 6-1.
I doubt that Pooch will recruit any of them but for what it's worth, Butler has several players that could help us. Both of their pitchers looked better than anyone on our pitching staff and their shortstop and right fielder were impressive.
I am sure that Pooch will light a fire under our girls after that performance and they will come out ready to play next week.

[1B29]

Fires will not help. It was pathetic. Shortstop is going to Arkansas. Just an early sign of what will come in the Spring unless WSU gets some transfers or something for the Spring. Amazing how none of the girls from Butler is good enough to play at WSU. Or at least it seems since none are being recruited here. Ding Dong. Oh and by the way Pooch can get their girls for the second half of the year. Doubt it!

[1972Shocker]

Posted by WuDrWu on July 26th on the "Did We Lose Our No. 1 Pitcher" thread:

Pretty much can pencil in a last place finish for softball this season.

This would seem to be more accurate than ever at this point.

:ohno:

[whatevershock]

Apparently you haven't heard what this team did in Norman a few weekends ago. I heard they lost to OU (which will be a top ten team this season) 3-1 and were tied 1-1 through 6 innings. You have to remember, fall ball is for trying new line ups, different pitching rotations, etc. This team clearly did not come to play vs. Butler, but seems like they did vs. OU. This team will truly have its ups and downs this season but what do you expect when you lose your #1 pitcher in June and have a freshman and sophomore in your rotation? Don't know of many softball teams that would do very well if they lost their #1 pitcher.

[Quick Pitch]

whatevershock, does this mean that Butler Juco is better than OU? :shock:
I have had some good debates on here with Flying Moose about the fact that we should, but don't recruit the Kansas jucos and I think I have finally been proven correct.
Now with all that said, I think Butler is one of the top juco programs in the country and when they play a team like us (after losing our top pitcher) it should not be a surprise when they compete well. However, I am sure that if we were to play them next spring there would be a different result.
JMO

[1B29]

Let's get serious. No matter what time of year or circumstance a D1 team should never be swept by a Juco. You can make all the excuses you want but what we have is reality. Don't want to sound negative but sometimes the "Truth needs to be told when people don't want to hear it." I wish the best for the girls but something has to change or it will be a long season next Spring. Hats off to new pitching coach she has very difficult journey till next May. And offensively there has to be a major overhaul. Either they need to hire a better hitting coach or take them to someone that can fix it. Maybe recruiting better hitters can help? Duh? I am behind these young ladies but I want to win!

[flyingMoose]

I have had some good debates on here with Flying Moose about the fact that we should, but don't recruit the Kansas jucos and I think I have finally been proven correct.

http://grizzlies.butlercc.edu/softball/were_they_went.cfm

http://www.cowleytigers.com/softball/softballalumni.html

I can easily believe that different people will interpret these two lists differently.

We did recruit Ashley Bright from Cowley, and she was a key part of the team (2007: ERA of 2.44, WHIP of 1.21; 2008: 1.76 and 0.98 ).

And, as has been discussed at length, we did not recruit Lauren Supak from Butler (2009: ERA of 2.23, WHIP of 1.45; 2010: 3.51 and 1.50 in two years at Missouri State).

So it goes.

[flyingMoose]

I had the chance to watch most of one game.

Their pitcher hit spots better than our pitchers. Our hitters never adjusted to what their pitcher was doing.

But what do I know.

[Quick Pitch]

Moose, after watching the games, in your opinion, are there ANY Butler players that could help us?

[1B29]

YES. WITHOUT QUESTION. Sorry, but I think it was a no brainer.

[shoxlax]

There should be ample talent in the state to support two D-1 softball programs, both in the high school and the juco ranks. I know the dude with the Mustangs doesn't like WSU but there is a lot of other girls that could help Pooch if he would look their way.

[flyingMoose]

Moose, after watching the games, in your opinion, are there ANY Butler players that could help us?

I am not a coach; I am just there watching softball and talking about softball with people. I am not really there with the mindset of evaluating players and their ability to play at the next level. So even though we clearly have holes to fill, I have no idea if Butler players are the ones to fill them. Would the first Butler pitcher get players out in the Valley in the spring? I have no idea. (Even I could tell that AB could get players out in the Valley, but the Butler pitcher is no AB.)

The point of those lists is that coaches all across the country, who *are* looking for quality players so they can keep their jobs, have made their own decisions about who can and cannot contribute to their programs. And only a few players from recent Butler and Cowley rosters go to mid-major or better D-I programs.

But that said, the Butler SS was clearly a very nice defensive player, but I did not pay enough attention to even know when she came to the plate. However, if she is already committed to Arkansas in the fall of her freshman year at Butler, that means that UA found her, her academics are not good enough, so they parked her at Butler for two years so she could get her academics in order. Or it means something else entirely.

[Quick Pitch]

FM, nobody is saying that the Butler pitchers are as good as Ashley Bright. What I am saying is that they are both better than the pitchers we have now.
As for the Butler shortstop that is going to sign at Arkansas, here is the scoop that I got today. The Butler coach (Doug Chance) found her and she was getting ready to accept a D1 full ride with a small Southland Conference school. He then contacted the Arkansas coach and worked a deal to get her to Ark. if she would come to Butler for 1 year first. I don't know if he called Pooch about her, but I kinda doubt it.
As for the lists of where the juco kids signed, those lists are misleading. Where players sign is not always a good indicator of their ability. Here are 2 examples that are common knowlege in the softball circles:
Jacy Juden from Cowley signed D2 but originally signed a full ride at Univ of Arkansas. She left there because she didn't want to be far from home.
Sadie Ball from Butler signed D2, but had a full ride offer from Syracuse (among others) but didn't want to go far from home.
I am sure that there are several others cases just like these.
Another kid, Kim Jerrick from Belle Plaine signed D2 to be close to home. She is easily a D1 level player.
The point is that WSU IS close to home for those players, yet we didn't recruit them!

[1B29]

Great Response Quick Pitch. I would like to know if Pooch is going to recruit the Oklahoma State Tournament this weekend. I know for a fact there are a lot of uncommited girls that could step right in and help our program. Oklahoma plays High School Softball in the Fall. We must ask ourselves "What does WSU offer to these girls to keep them closer to home. " A winning program? Will they get better? Are our coaches respected for their softball knowledge? Take the education and scholarship offer out of the picture and is our assets as a softball program good enough to keep local good players and out of state players interested in coming to WSU? WSU fans are great and I enjoy watching and being in the Baseball atmophere at the ballpark. It can be done across the street if there is enough interest. I am all behind changing the attitude of players, fans, and especially adminstration to look in the future and develop a change in WSU softball program.