WBB Scores Around the Valley

[1972Shocker]

The Valley women continue to struggle early on as Drake, picked to finish in 3rd in the preseason poll, falls to 0-3 after losing 60-74 at SIU-Edwardsville last night.

The Valley women are now off to a 6-15 start and have currently lost 9 in a row.

It's not like the Valley has played an overwhelmingly tough schedule so far. The Shocker win over Creighton is probably the best win so far.

[ShockTalk]

I have a hard time understanding why the Valley's women basketball programs are so far behind many other comparable or smaller conferences. I realize that there may be a few smaller conferences that may be know for their women's basketball programs. Unlike baseball, weather isn't a factor and I would think that all conferences, not in the Big 5, would have similar financial challenges in supporting their athletic department.

Perhaps some of our more learned women's basketball experts can give some insight.

[tgcshock]

I have a hard time understanding why the Valley's women basketball programs are so far behind many other comparable or smaller conferences. I realize that there may be a few smaller conferences that may be know for their women's basketball programs. Unlike baseball, weather isn't a factor and I would think that all conferences, not in the Big 5, would have similar financial challenges in supporting their athletic department.

Perhaps some of our more learned women's basketball experts can give some insight.

I think at least part of it is the style of officiating promoted by the conference. The MVC tends to penalize physical play on the women's side. Many of the teams (not WSU) play to this style and tend to get hammered when they go out of conference.

[1972Shocker]

I have a hard time understanding why the Valley's women basketball programs are so far behind many other comparable or smaller conferences. I realize that there may be a few smaller conferences that may be know for their women's basketball programs. Unlike baseball, weather isn't a factor and I would think that all conferences, not in the Big 5, would have similar financial challenges in supporting their athletic department.

Perhaps some of our more learned women's basketball experts can give some insight.

I am pretty much rowing the same boat as you here. The Valley has very good volleyball. Not at the very top of the pecking order but the top of the league can usually hold their own pretty well against all but the very elite teams (Nebraska, Penn State, Texas, USC, etc). Basketball not so much especially post Cheryl Burnnett at SWOMO. Drake used to have pretty good women's teams as well with good size. As good as the Jackie Stiles led SWOMO teams were the Shocks could hold their own with them pretty well especially at home. The Creighton-Loyola swap hurt the WBB in the Valley about as much as it did the men's side of the ledger.

Volleyball seems to be growing in leaps and bounds in popularity and I am wondering if a lot the talent that used to lean toward basketball is now leaning towards Volleyball. Just look at the rosters for the Wichita State VB and WBB teams. Both are head count sports. VB has 12 scholarships. He has 22 ladies on this year's roster. Only 1 of those is a Senior. He has just signed 4 more for next year. Don't ask me how he makes that work because I don't know. OTOH, Jody has 15 scholarships to give and has 11 scholarship players on this year's roster (1 who is sitting out due to transfer rules). Granted she had one academic casualty and one foreign player who returned home due to unforeseen family health issues. Jody has 3 seniors this year and has inked 3 players to LOI's for next year. Jody's rosters have averaged about 11.5 scholarship players during her time at WSU. I wonder if the growing popularity of VB may not be depleting the talent pool for WBB some?

Lambo has thirteen 6-footers on his roster including five @ 6-0, three @ 6-2, three @ 6-3, one @ 6-4 and one @ 6-5. One of his 6-0 players plus a 5-9 player are in the starting lineup because they are very athletic and can jump out of the gym. Our setter last year was 6-1 and this year is a very athletic 5-11.

Jody has three 6-footers on her roster with 1 of those players, 6-2 Kelsey Jacobs, in the starting lineup. But Kelsey is anything but a banger and is more of a perimeter player who tends to shy away from contact. She is long but not powerful and has battled injury problems in her career. With have a 6-3 backup center who is pretty athletic but very raw skill-wise and a 6-0 sophomore backup forward who has played somewhat sparingly so far.

I don't really know if this is a factor or not, but it is just something I've observed over the last decade and I think it more or less holds true across the board in the Valley.

[oldtimewomen's hoopcoach]

I am pretty much rowing the same boat as you here. The Valley has very good volleyball. Not at the very top of the pecking order but the top of the league can usually hold their own pretty well against all but the very elite teams (Nebraska, Penn State, Texas, USC, etc). Basketball not so much especially post Cheryl Burnnett at SWOMO. Drake used to have pretty good women's teams as well with good size. As good as the Jackie Stiles led SWOMO teams were the Shocks could hold their own with them pretty well especially at home. The Creighton-Loyola swap hurt the WBB in the Valley about as much as it did the men's side of the ledger.

Volleyball seems to be growing in leaps and bounds in popularity and I am wondering if a lot the talent that used to lean toward basketball is now leaning towards Volleyball. Just look at the rosters for the Wichita State VB and WBB teams. Both are head count sports. VB has 12 scholarships. He has 22 ladies on this year's roster. Only 1 of those is a Senior. He has just signed 4 more for next year. Don't ask me how he makes that work because I don't know. OTOH, Jody has 15 scholarships to give and has 11 scholarship players on this year's roster (1 who is sitting out due to transfer rules). Granted she had one academic casualty and one foreign play who returned home due to unforeseen family health issues. Jody has 3 seniors this year and has inked 3 players to LOI's for next year. Jody's rosters have averaged about 11.5 scholarship players during her time at WSU. I wonder if the growing popularity of VB may not be depleting the talent pool for WBB some?

Lambo has thirteen 6-footers on his roster including five @ 6-0, three @ 6-2, three @ 6-3, one @ 6-4 and one @ 6-5. One of his 6-0 players plus a 5-9 player are in the starting lineup because they are very athletic and can jump out of the gym. Our setter last year was 6-1 and this year is a very athletic 5-11.

Jody has three 6-footers on her roster with 1 of those players, 6-2 Kelsey Jacobs, in the starting lineup. But Kelsey is anything but a banger and is more of a perimeter player who tends to shy away from contact. She is long but not powerful and has battled injury problems in her career. With have a 6-3 backup center who is pretty athletic but very raw skill-wise and a 6-0 sophomore backup forward who has played somewhat sparingly so far.

I don't really know if this is a factor or not, but it is just something I've observed over the last decade and I think it more or less holds true across the board in the Valley.

I spoken with a number of volleyball players around the country who were quite good as basketball players in High School. Most all of them say they don't like the contact and work required to play college basketball. I once spoke with Sydney Kuhn from Kapaun HS who is on a basketball scholarship at Notre Dame. Her dad played for the Shox. She said she doesn't like the work and contact of college basketball. She had more fun playing volleyball. Interesting.

[1972Shocker]

I spoken with a number of volleyball players around the country who were quite good as basketball players in High School. Most all of them say they don't like the contact and work required to play college basketball. I once spoke with Sydney Kuhn from Kapaun HS who is on a basketball scholarship at Notre Dame. Her dad played for the Shox. She said she doesn't like the work and contact of college basketball. She had more fun playing volleyball. Interesting.

Actually Sydney is on a volleyball scholarship at Notre Dame.

http://www.und.com/sports/w-volley/mtt/sydney_kuhn_892736.html

However, the point of your post is still valid and interesting.

I believe Sydney could have also played D-1 basketball had she chosen to do so and no doubt had offers to do so.

The Shockers 6-3 RFr MB, Abbie Lehman from Newton was all set to attend D-II Pitt State on a basketball scholarship but Lambo convinced her that she could be a legit D-1 volleyball player. I really don't know what all went into Abbie's decision to go with Volleyball, but she appears to have made a good decision as she is heading towards an All-Valley season as a redshirt freshman.

[oldtimewomen's hoopcoach]

Actually Sydney is on a volleyball scholarship at Notre Dame.

http://www.und.com/sports/w-volley/mtt/sydney_kuhn_892736.html

However, the point of your post is still valid and interesting.

I believe Sydney could have also played D-1 basketball had she chosem to do so and no doubt had offers to do so.

The Shockers 6-3 RFr MB, Abbie Lehman from Newton was all set to attend D-II Pitt State on a basketball scholarship but Lambo convinced her that she could be a legit D-1 volleyball player. I really don't know what all went into Abbie's decision to go with Volleyball, but she appears to have made a good decision as she is heading towards an All-Valley season as a redshirt freshman.

Good catch. I meant volleyball.

[1972Shocker]

Looking back at the past 9 years is somewhat informative. Beginning in 2004-05 through 2013-2014 Valley ranked 19, 10, 10, 8, 11, 10, 9, 15 and 12 in RPI.

Part of it could just be cyclical. The jump from 10th to 19th was no doubt impacted by swapping Loyola for Creighton. Last year Creighton's RPI was 56. We replaced that with Loyola's 257 ranking. There is no doubt that last year was a down year for the Valley WBB. But the swap of Loyola for CU dropped us from 14th to 19th.

This can kind of feed on itself as well. Last year the Shocks had the best RPI in the Valley at #83 which was no doubt dragged down by their schedule. The Shocks played 5 non-con games vs teams with an average RPI of 280 and 6 Valley games against teams with an average RPI of 291 (2 each with #257 Loyola, #282 Bradley and #335 SIU) with only 2 games against the Top 100 both of which were losses. This year's schedule looks better although the Shocks still have their share of potential RPI killers, not to mention the tougher schedule may mean more losses.

At this point the Valley appears to be pretty much a one-bid league as far as the NCAA Tournament is concerned with an occasional at-large bid. Furthermore, those bids seem to result in seeds in the 10 to 14 range. The Shocks have been 14 seeds in both of their appearances. One a blow-out loss and one a very competitive game.

[1972Shocker]

Bradley, as expected, was dominated by Oklahoma 104-55.

Evansville getting drilled 77-59 at Ooey-Fooey (IPFW) was not expected and that was with 6-1 Sr F Mallory Ladd scoring 31 for the Aces.

Valley is now 6-17 on the season with an 11-game conference losing streak.

[1972Shocker]

The Valley women went 2-3 today. In addition to the Shockers 71-61 win over UTA, which may prove to be a decent win down the line, Loyola won scintillating battle with the Northern Kentucky Norse 45-38.

However, Indiana State lost to Stetson 52-62, SIU lost to Wright State 50-70 and Missouri State lost to #21 Oklahoma State 36-77.

The Valley is now off to an 8-20 start against most a run-of-the-mil slate of opponents. Not good.

[1972Shocker]

Drake picked up a nice 89-77 home win over Wisconsin behind a 33 point performance from sophomore Lizzy Wendell.

However, Illinois State lost 49-70 at Colorado State.

Valley goes to 9-21 on the season.

[1972Shocker]

Final: @Stony Brook 79 - Bradley 63

Final: @Oral Roberts 70 - Missouri State 57

Final: Indiana State 76 - ETSU 69

Valley-To-Date: 10-23

[1972Shocker]

UNI falls on the road to #17 Iowa 73-45. The Panthers trailed 25-28 with 17:44 remaining when they hit a 7 minute scoreless drought and Iowa pulled away.

Loyola led UAB 33-30 with 16:39 to play but UAB went on a 28-10 run over the next 12 minutes and coasted to a 61-51 win at the Genteel Center.

The Valley falls to 10-25 on the year as the RPI hole the are digging is getting pretty deep.

[1972Shocker]

Evansville falls to #22 West Virginia 83-39.

Bradley lost in overtime at Columbia 81-74 despite a school record 38 point performance by Sr G Michelle Young.

SIU picked up a 82-75 home win over Memphis while Indiana State picked up a 74-53 road win at South Alabama.

The split moves the Valley to 12-27 on the season.

[1972Shocker]

Thursday: FGCU 56 - WSU 39

Friday:
WSU 70 - Ohio State 55
Drake 69 - UTSA 61 in San Antonio
SIU 78 - SEMO 62 in Carbondale
Miami (FL) 95 - Illinois State 44 in Miami
Hofstra 61 - Northern Iowa 58 @ Hofstra
Colorado 87 - Missouri State 59 in Boulder (MSU still without Tyonna Snow so far this year - foot injury I think)

Valley Non-Con Record: 15-31