Creighton

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Even if/when Hawkins chooses Creighton, I wonder how we will look upon things in 3 years?

My point:

Hawkins chooses Creighton, we were in the mix.
Dingman chooses Creighton, we were in the mix, but not as much as MizzSt.
Chatman chooses Creighton, we were in the mix and he came up to Elite Camp.

Instead:

VanVleet commits to Shockers. Wow!
Early commits to Shockers. A highly recruited JUCO player.
Green commits to Shockers!

Will be interested to see how these "misses" possibly turned into upgrades, and possibly more. With 2 years from Early and 1 from Armstead, we can make a run this year and next and possible land 2 or 3 more big time recruits for 2013/2014.

[_kai_]

Not saying you are saying it, but in general, it is one of my biggest pet peeves to see people say "The staff missed big on this recruit."

1.) No one is truly an insider, and knows exactly how a recruit is thinking, or how much effort a staff put into picking up a recruit.

2.) Marshall has such a large net of recruits, when he supposedly "misses" on someone, it's funny how we snatch up someone just as good.

3.) Especially with High School recruits, it's really difficult to judge how talent will pan out. Typically all your top 100, top 150 guys pan out to be good ball players, some become extraordinary, some fall short. But its the guys who are on the bubble who slip through the cracks, that can really impress people, just because giving them a few years to mature, and get good coaching can be all the difference to a player.

4.) Good JUCO connections make it a lot easier to pick up on the "misses" because you can rely on an experienced player to come in, and take charge early on. I am totally of the mindset that JUCO players plug the gaps in recruiting, and instead of rebuilding, you reload. And our staff has continually proven that they don't necessarily "rely" on our JUCO connections, but enhance the roster with them. You build the team around a solid freshman class, and when attrition sets in, and you lose a few to grades, or homesickness, what ever it is, then you come in, fill the gaps with solid 2 year players, and thrive. I think we're finally seeing that tactic shine through with Marshalls recruiting strategy.

I took a tiny bit of your post and turned it into something else, but you can get the point I was going for.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Not saying you are saying it, but in general, it is one of my biggest pet peeves to see people say "The staff missed big on this recruit."

1.) No one is truly an insider, and knows exactly how a recruit is thinking, or how much effort a staff put into picking up a recruit.

2.) Marshall has such a large net of recruits, when he supposedly "misses" on someone, it's funny how we snatch up someone just as good.

3.) Especially with High School recruits, it's really difficult to judge how talent will pan out. Typically all your top 100, top 150 guys pan out to be good ball players, some become extraordinary, some fall short. But its the guys who are on the bubble who slip through the cracks, that can really impress people, just because giving them a few years to mature, and get good coaching can be all the difference to a player.

4.) Good JUCO connections make it a lot easier to pick up on the "misses" because you can rely on an experienced player to come in, and take charge early on. I am totally of the mindset that JUCO players plug the gaps in recruiting, and instead of rebuilding, you reload. And our staff has continually proven that they don't necessarily "rely" on our JUCO connections, but enhance the roster with them. You build the team around a solid freshman class, and when attrition sets in, and you lose a few to grades, or homesickness, what ever it is, then you come in, fill the gaps with solid 2 year players, and thrive. I think we're finally seeing that tactic shine through with Marshalls recruiting strategy.

I took a tiny bit of your post and turned it into something else, but you can get the point I was going for.

I get ya. And I agree. Im not saying we missed, but you could say that about Chatman. I know we were high on him since he was a Soph.

I look forward to this comparison in 3 years.

[WSUwatcher]

Hawkins

I'm not going to assume that Hawkins will go to Creighton until he signs (not commits, which may or may not happen either) there -- just as, by the way, I'm not going to count Uwadiae, Early, Green, and Van Vleet as Shockers until they sign either, although I have no reason to doubt any of their commitments: I've just seen too many flips from following football recruiting to trust commitments.

But regardless, the real key here is the very accurate observation that sometimes it's the lower-profile guys who end up being the difference makers anyway. A great example, and one I've cited before, is Butler's Gordon Hayward, a local high schooler who reportedly had three (!) offers out of high school: Purdue, where both of his parents attended college, plus Butler and IUPUI (!!). A nice prospect, although not exactly Mr. Recruit -- and yet as just a sophomore he was the guy who led Butler to the brink of beating blueblood Duke for the national championship; he was the guy for whom they set up what could have been the winning shot; he was the guy who nearly banked in another last second heave that would have won it; and after all that, he ended up being a lottery pick and sticking in the NBA.

You don't know how good your recruits were / are until they actually play for you.

[_kai_]

I'm not going to assume that Hawkins will go to Creighton until he signs (not commits, which may or may not happen either) there -- just as, by the way, I'm not going to count Uwadiae, Early, Green, and Van Vleet as Shockers until they sign either, although I have no reason to doubt any of their commitments: I've just seen too many flips from following football recruiting to trust commitments.

But regardless, the real key here is the very accurate observation that sometimes it's the lower-profile guys who end up being the difference makers anyway. A great example, and one I've cited before, is Butler's Gordon Hayward, a local high schooler who reportedly had three (!) offers out of high school: Purdue, where both of his parents attended college, plus Butler and IUPUI (!!). A nice prospect, although not exactly Mr. Recruit -- and yet as just a sophomore he was the guy who led Butler to the brink of beating blueblood Duke for the national championship; he was the guy for whom they set up what could have been the winning shot; he was the guy who nearly banked in another last second heave that would have won it; and after all that, he ended up being a lottery pick and sticking in the NBA.

You don't know how good your recruits were / are until they actually play for you.

I know it's football, and all, but look at Bryce Brown. The kid was the #1 overall recruit on all kinds of recruiting sites. What has he done at Tennesse, and K-State now? A little above nothing.

It's such a paradox to talk about how recruting figures don't count, when what else can you go by to discuss recruits in a recruit forum, but still, you have to let it be there in the back of your mind when talking about recruiting. It rarely turns out absolutely correct to what the recruiting analysts predict.

[Aargh]

I know it's football, and all, but look at Bryce Brown. The kid was the #1 overall recruit on all kinds of recruiting sites. What has he done at Tennesse, and K-State now? A little above nothing.

It's such a paradox to talk about how recruting figures don't count, when what else can you go by to discuss recruits in a recruit forum, but still, you have to let it be there in the back of your mind when talking about recruiting. It rarely turns out absolutely correct to what the recruiting analysts predict.

I believe BB's college career consists of impregnating one coed. I could have beat that if I would have been trying - and I didn't have any stars - well not in athletics.

[tropicalshox]

Between Austin Chatman's official visit to WSU and Creighton, we brought in Tekele Cotton for a visit. When Chatman verballed to Creighton, we immediately took Cotton. It was Cotton who replaced Chatman. We were interested enough in Dingman for Marshall to make the short trip to watch him play, but an offer by the Shockers was never reported. Creighton beat us out for Nevin Johnson, who we had an offer out on for sometime and IMO we did indeed want. He is a SF who committed to CU in the Spring of last year. Last Fall, we landed SF Ede Egharevba who could be considered the replacement for Johnson. Egharevba might of had a little to do with us getting James Anacreon and possibly Henry Uwadiae.

If Hawkins goes to CU, it's probably because of his buddy, Andre Yates. We came in late for Yates and WSU appeared to be going for a double get with Hawkins, like CU is after. WSU went off Yates' radar around the time of taking Derail Green. Perhaps WSU stopped recruiting Yates due to not wanting to take two more recruits after Green.

BTW, perhaps the delay with Hawkins to CU is due to their head coach deciding if Teddy is worth paying for son's education. Just joking on that, but one thing that leads me to believe Hawkins to CU is not yet a done deal is I'm told that Creighton is still recruiting hard for 2012. They are out of scholarships and it's pretty much known if they take one more player, Doug Mc will not have a scholarship.

[1972Shocker]

Coach takes his son scholarship.
Coach pays for his sons schooling.
Coach gives son's scholarship to a recruit.
Coash is (in effect) paying for the recurit's scholarship.
Apparently it is a legal way to for a Coach whose son plays for him to buy a recruit when he is otherwise out of scholarships.

[_kai_]

Coach takes his son scholarship.
Coach pays for his sons schooling.
Coach gives son's scholarship to a recruit.
Coash is (in effect) paying for the recurit's scholarship.
Apparently it is a legal way to for a Coach whose son plays for him to buy a recruit when he is otherwise out of scholarships.

It's just the benefit of coaching your kid. Bruce Pearl did it at UT. I really don't see any issue with it, because typically the coach's kid is horrible. Look at Dan Hawkins at Colorado. I relate a lot of things to football, just a side note haha.

[1972Shocker]

Well if Bruce Pearl did it then it has to be totally kosher. :topsy_turvy:

[_kai_]

Well if Bruce Pearl did it then it has to be totally kosher. :topsy_turvy:

Well he is Jewish.:bball_spin:

[1972Shocker]

Well he is Jewish.:bball_spin:

:biggrin-new:

[SubGod22]

If 3Gs kid was old enough, and good enough, none of us would have a problem with him not being on scholarship so we could add another quality piece.

[DoubleJayAlum]

...but one thing that leads me to believe Hawkins to CU is not yet a done deal is I'm told that Creighton is still recruiting hard for 2012.

The above is inaccurate. While the staff is doing the sort of "always keep recruiting just in case" stuff that every staff does, it is untrue that they are still recruiting hard for 2012. In fact, they really only started recruiting Hawkins very recently. Until the Hawkins situation presented itself, the staff had essentially closed the book on 2012. In fact, after Yates verballed, the staff cancelled two visits that had been scheduled.

[tropicalshox]

It's true that they cancelled two visits but weren't they for point guards same as Yates? I heard they have current interest in another forward. Of course you here a lot of things.