Noah Fernandes 6'0 PG 2019 a Shocker!

[shocks02]

[pie n eye]

I like a da juice.

[pinstripers]

He's not frail, but he's not very big, either.

[Dan]

[Shockm]

Whenever a Shockernetter gets too involved in choosing redshirt candidates, it never ends well. This years choice to redshirt prior to the year was Burton, if my memory is correct. Right now, he would be an awful choice because he is playing pretty well at PG. We need him now.

[pie n eye]

moved

[pie n eye]

Care to go more in depth on why you think he needs a redshirt?

With Burton and Torres next year it might be a luxury we can afford. However, if we’re trying to go after higher level players, how many of those type of guys are going to want to sit out a year?

Personally, I think if he’s good he’ll get minutes next year. The rotation is crackable at his position. Besides, how many guards other than Baker (who red shirted because we didn’t have enough scholarships) can you name who took a shirt and then ended up being a big time contributor? Legit question because I can’t really think of any off the top of my head. Most of the red shirt guards I can think of ended up out of the program.

[WuShocker2006]

A redshirt still counts as one of the allotted scholarships. We didn't have one to give, so Baker paid his own way, but he redshirted because he wanted to, even though players and coaches told him he should play.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2238917-the-ultimate-shocker-how-ron-baker-went-from-walk-on-to-nba-prospect?is_shared=true

[pinstripers]

. Besides, how many guards other than Baker (who red shirted because we didn’t have enough scholarships) can you name who took a shirt and then ended up being a big time contributor?

PJ

[pie n eye]

Shockm is correct. Per Marshall on his last coaches show, Ron’s red shirt boiled down to not enough scholarships and the Bakers floated the idea of walking on/red shirting his first year. Lucky for us!

Baker seemed to lack confidence in his hoop game. I remember hearing a story, details are foggy, about him being invited to some kind of pick up/try out for KU and he didn’t go because he thought it would be a waste of his time.

[Shockm]

Well we may agree. I think that we had so many upper class Jr. \Sr. guards (Rags, Murray, D Will, Kyles) that Baker didn’t want to waste a year sitting the bench.

[1972Shocker]

I think were splitting hairs here but he didn't redshirt because there were no scholarships available he could have played.

pie n eye put it succinctly. Baker seemed to lack confidence in his hoop game. This is why he red-shirted. Had there been a scholarship available he most likely would still have red-shirted. Ron was promised a scholarship after his 1st year up front so he pretty much knew that he was only on the hook for 1 year of his schooling at WSU unlike most walk-ons. This was the impact of no scholarship. We were the beneficiary that he and his family were willing to absorb 1 year of schooling on their dime.

Coach Marshall was pretty clear that they redshirted Ron because he wanted to redshirt.

"He played it beautifully," the coach said, "and proved to be one of the best, if not the best, freshman in that group. But we had to redshirt him, because we couldn't play him because he wanted to redshirt."

Again a very good decision by Ron.

[Shockm]

PJ

Whatever, Redshirting a player on scholarship has been infinitely rare.

[WuShocker2006]

The story I posted above gives all the details.

[pie n eye]

Read it after I already posted. Thanks!

[pinstripers]

Whatever, Redshirting a player on scholarship has been infinitely rare.

Yes it has, but PJ certainly counts.

[Dan]

Why does everyone think redshirting is a bad or taboo subject? Some of our better players redshirted. As 3G once said, they are better as seniors than they are as freshmen. JT Durley, PJ Cousinard, Shaq Morris, Troy Mack, Ron Baker to name a few. Redshirting is not a bad thing, nor is it a slam on a player. If we have on opportunity to develop a kid over 5 years versus 4, I’ll take it.

[1972Shocker]

I agree. I think redshirting is a good tool if used in the right circumstances. Of course, 3G does not force any of his players to redshirt if they don't want to.

[pie n eye]

I don’t think it’s bad or taboo, I was just genuinely curious about your reasoning for posting the red shirt. Sounds like you’re just in favor of all guys taking a RS year?

[Shockm]

Fernandez was a 3* 175-200 recruit and he was a highly recruited player. Not elite but highly recruited. JT Durley, and Shaq we’re both low level 2* recruits who had always played beneath their potential. They were soft and lazy and weren’t ready to play as Redshirt Sophomores and Juniors, let alone True Freshmen. PJ was under recruited too. I don’t think that any of the other recruits mentioned were higher than 500 recruits. PJ was a 6’2” Power Forward out of high school. None of these recruits compare to Fernandez from a ratings standpoint. Baker is the only recruit you mentioned who probably was an equal as no recruiting service and few Div. 1 Universities had ever heard of Baker but he would hav3 been a higher level recruit, had Baker played AAU basketball.

[Dan]

Fernandez was a 3* 175-200 recruit and he was a highly recruited player. Not elite but highly recruited. JT Durley, and Shaq we’re both low level 2* recruits who had always played beneath their potential. They were soft and lazy and weren’t ready to play as Redshirt Sophomores and Juniors, let alone True Freshmen. PJ was under recruited too. I don’t think that any of the other recruits mentioned were higher than 500 recruits. PJ was a 6’2” Power Forward out of high school. None of these recruits compare to Fernandez from a ratings standpoint. Baker is the only recruit you mentioned who probably was an equal as no recruiting service and few Div. 1 Universities had ever heard of Baker but he would hav3 been a higher level recruit, had Baker played AAU basketball.

Recruiting ratings don’t matter, not unless he’s a Top 150ish player. Are they ready to compete for a spot in the rotation or not? They all come in thinking they are starters, just ask Chance Moore. The reality is, some of them need the extra year to get into better shape, put on weight, develop speed, etc.

[Shockm]

Recruiting ratings don’t matter, not unless he’s a Top 150ish player.

You’re telling me a ratings service KNOWS the difference between Recruit #175 and #150? That’s just BULL. Fred was #137 on Rivals and I guarantee you he was better than some higher. He was better than the Top #75 PG from Maryland (I forget his name but he made the USA team that went to the Latin American games with Baker, while Fred stayed home. Some recruits still don’t have the same exposure as others and even recruiting services don’t have a consensus agreement.

[Dan]

I was gonna say Top 100 but figured you’d throw a fit so I expanded it to 150. You have your opinion, I have mine,

[TheShocktocles]

You’re telling me a ratings service KNOWS the difference between Recruit #175 and #150? That’s just BULL. Fred was #137 on Rivals and I guarantee you he was better than some higher. He was better than the Top #75 PG from Maryland (I forget his name but he made the USA team that went to the Latin American games with Baker, while Fred stayed home. Some recruits still don’t have the same exposure as others and even recruiting services don’t have a consensus agreement.

Melo Trimble was his name. Could not tribble the ball up the court without turning it over. He made the team over Fred because Mark Turgeon''s friendship with Tad Boyle. Total bullsht. If Fred had been on that team USA would have won the gold medal.

And your right Fred was better than a lot of guys ranked in front of him. Fred was told he is not athletic enough, too short, too slow, and not a great shooter. Fernandez has been told all his life that he is too small. Like Fred he has a mojo you can't teach and his team's keep winning. In my opinion I don't think he redshirts. Coach likes having 3 point guards.

[Shockm]

Recruiting ratings don’t matter, not unless he’s a Top 150ish player. Are they ready to compete for a spot in the rotation or not?.

Actually I will amend my post after learning that Melo Trimble was a #39 player on Rivals compared to Fred #137 or Ron Baker UNRANKED. Not trying to change your mind but I thought that the more accurate information was important. I want guys ready to play and physically mature, but mature enough and tough enough to live up to their potential.

[Dan]

Which is why I say rankings don’t matter. They’re either ready to play or they aren’t. Time will tell with this one.

[WSUwatcher]

Coaches with an eye for talent, which is a big help in being a good recruiter -- and Marshall qualifies on both counts -- don't worry about stars or ratings; they trust their own judgment and evaluation. (It happens in football, too, which is how 3* Josh Jacobs went in the span of a few weeks from essentially no high major offers to a spot at Alabama once Saban and his staff saw him on tape, and why Jacobs is now leaving a year early for the NFL and will probably be one of the first backs drafted.)

If Marshall thinks a small 3* true PG with skills, moxie, leadership ability, and a chip on his shoulder is a good fit for a team that needs PG leadership, I'll trust his judgment -- he's been down that path before, after all -- and I won't be surprised to see Fernandes get meaningful minutes next year, especially as the season goes along, which is what happened to another "too small" Shocker freshman PG about seven years before.