UNI

[AndShock]

What would we do if Mark Turgeon brought a team back to Koch?

Random?

Not entirely random, but I do think it's apples and oranges. UNI fans booed Big Mc, and Little Mc everytime he touched the ball, but I think they were entirely justified.

I don't think Turgeon would be booed out of the gym if he brought aTm into Koch Arena. If he got fired from aTm, then went to Missouri State and stole Carl Hall from us, then it might be a different story. Except even that might not be comparable, because Little Mc is already considered by some to be one of the best players in the MVC and he's only a freshman. Stick little Mc on UNI and they might be having a totally different season right now.

[BOBB]

Kwadzo s my favorite player in the league. Jamar-like. Love to hate the guy.

[ShockTalk]

UNI is only as good as they are because the Valley let them join the conference. For some reason when the Valley lost teams like Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis, etc. they kept adding schools that had just turned D1. That gave those schools a huge boost in the ability to recruit and gave them instant recognition.

At the same time, it diluted the Valley and the long-term members suffered because their ability to recruit and attract coaches was compromised due to all the provisional D1 schools the Valley admitted.

I remeber when Smithson, the Elder, got here he wanted to get into a better conference and the Valley admitted Illinois State (Smithson's former team) within a year or so of Gene's getting here. He was not happy about a school of that caliber getting into the Valley.

I find it easier to dislike the former D2's in the Valley than the long-term D1 schools. For long-term Shocker fans, schools like UE, UNI, IlSU, InSU, even MSU are a factor in WSU's drop from perennial national contender to irrelevance.

Fans of the D2's seem to have the attitude that basketball wasn't invented and had no history until they showed up in the conference. They discount the tradition and heritage that WSU, BU, even DU had. Then they point to the recent struggles WSU, BU, and DU have as evidence that our history doesn't matter. They don't seem to understand that their schools joining the conference were and are a direct contributor to the demise of some once-proud programs.

For the discussion of tradition and heritage, I'll assume we are talking of the period starting at which Wichita joined the Valley in 1945. Drake, an original member had left and came back after 7 years and Bradley joined in 1948. So, prior to SIU coming in 1975, we're talking about a 30 year period.

You mention Cincinnati, Louisville, and Memphis and they did indeed have some great players and teams. However, their life in the Valley was a blip in the timeline. I believe Cincinnati and Louisville were in the Valley around 12 years and Memphis only 5 or 6 years. Hardly enough time to build tradition, but the Valley did get to lay claim to their successes during the short time they were here. Prior to them, Detroit had come and gone lasting about 7 years and Houston was gone by 1959 lasting 8-9 years. Some other longer term members during that time haven't had long lasting basketball success since such as St. Louis and Tulsa. Creighton left in 1948 after 20 years, but weren't added back until the "big name" schools were gone. And let's not forget other programs from that time that yes had some good teams, but their programs are not as strong as ours - West Texas, North Texas, and New Mexico St. Most of the time during that era, the Valley had 7 to 8 teams made up of the 15 different schools during that time.

Now, we look at the last 36 years. During that time, 13 different schools have made up the Valley of which 10 are still members. At one time, there was 11 schools in the conference. Evansville is the newest member having been part of the Valley for 17 years. That's longer than 8 of the 11 schools during that 1st 30 years who are no longer members of the Valley. 7 of the current 10 teams have been members for 30 years or longer. I hope you can see why many of the schools in the Valley scratch their heads when we talk about our Valley tradition.

Lastly, are you blaming the Valley or WSU for this plight? Did Wichita not leave the Valley when it should have? Why is it that WSU has not reaped bigger and greater benefits from this Valley recognition that the smaller newbies to Valley have? Myself included, we are complaining about the Valley at a time when the two other of our tradition/heritage Valley brethren are 3-17 in the Valley. The mirror probably reveals our own problem with the Valley. Perhaps, we let the Valley down and are more responsible. If we had led by example in the 90's as the strong, longtime standard of quality, tradition, and heritage of the MVC, maybe the Valley would be much stronger today.

I'm not saying the Valley doesn't have problems. It does, big ones and they need to get addressed quickly. However, we can do our part. If we're what many on this board think we are and are capable of becoming, we need to become the Butler/Gonzaga/Xavier of the MVC. If we do that, regardless of what happens to the Valley, we can succeed here or elsewhere.

:wsu_posters:

[wusphlash]

What would we do if Mark Turgeon brought a team back to Koch?

Random?

Not entirely random, but I do think it's apples and oranges. UNI fans booed Big Mc, and Little Mc everytime he touched the ball, but I think they were entirely justified.

I don't think Turgeon would be booed out of the gym if he brought aTm into Koch Arena. If he got fired from aTm, then went to Missouri State and stole Carl Hall from us, then it might be a different story. Except even that might not be comparable, because Little Mc is already considered by some to be one of the best players in the MVC and he's only a freshman. Stick little Mc on UNI and they might be having a totally different season right now.

If we were New Yorkers, he would get booed out of the gym. As Kansans, we're not quite so harsh. I definetly don't think he would be received warmly. There would be a smattering of boos amongst a few polite claps.

Greg Mc did take his son. He is also a UNI alum. We wouldn't be any kinder to a graduate of another Kansas school.

[ShockTalk]

What would we do if Mark Turgeon brought a team back to Koch?

Random?

Not entirely random, but I do think it's apples and oranges. UNI fans booed Big Mc, and Little Mc everytime he touched the ball, but I think they were entirely justified.

I don't think Turgeon would be booed out of the gym if he brought aTm into Koch Arena. If he got fired from aTm, then went to Missouri State and stole Carl Hall from us, then it might be a different story. Except even that might not be comparable, because Little Mc is already considered by some to be one of the best players in the MVC and he's only a freshman. Stick little Mc on UNI and they might be having a totally different season right now.

No doubt the Valley standing could have looked much different. Looking at past games, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that sCUm would be fighting to stay out of the playoff round and that the Bears and Shox might have been tied looking up at UNI a game ahead.

[Hurley]

Re:

And also it looks like the UNI Student Section has developed a dance to be performed during the games. Pretty cool actually.

For those with facebook:

]http://www.facebook.com/video/video....omments&ref=mf

[ShockTalk]

Re:

And also it looks like the UNI Student Section has developed a dance to be performed during the games. Pretty cool actually.

For those with facebook:

]http://www.facebook.com/video/video....omments&ref=mf

Well....OK.

They do have a guy about 3 rows up in the middle section, who probably doesn't realize it, but he could become their version of Utah St's Wild Bill if he worked at it.

[Aargh]

Shocktalk said:

If we had led by example in the 90's as the strong, longtime standard of quality, tradition, and heritage of the MVC, maybe the Valley would be much stronger today.

WSU screwed the pooch in the '90's - it actually started in the latter part of the '80's. An anti-sports president and a series of the type of AD's an anti-sports Pres is likely to hire.

Unfortunately, WSU's example was how to destroy an athletic program.

A weak administration at WSU coupled with an attitude in the conference office of expanding by opening the doors to D2 schools left WSU in the position we find ourselves today.

If either of those had been different, WSU's situation today would likely be better than it is. It's a lot easier (or maybe convenient) to complain about what the conference did by admitting all the D2's than it is to complain about WSU's lack of foresight or commitment to athletics for nearly two decades.

The current administration is facing a brutal uphill struggle if the intention is to raise the level of WSU athletics past where it is right now.

[ShockTalk]

Shocktalk said:

If we had led by example in the 90's as the strong, longtime standard of quality, tradition, and heritage of the MVC, maybe the Valley would be much stronger today.

WSU screwed the pooch in the '90's - it actually started in the latter part of the '80's. An anti-sports president and a series of the type of AD's an anti-sports Pres is likely to hire.

Unfortunately, WSU's example was how to destroy an athletic program.

A weak administration at WSU coupled with an attitude in the conference office of expanding by opening the doors to D2 schools left WSU in the position we find ourselves today.

If either of those had been different, WSU's situation today would likely be better than it is. It's a lot easier (or maybe convenient) to complain about what the conference did by admitting all the D2's than it is to complain about WSU's lack of foresight or commitment to athletics for nearly two decades.

The current administration is facing a brutal uphill struggle if the intention is to raise the level of WSU athletics past where it is right now.

I totally agree, Aargh.

[Kung Wu]

UNI is walking into Missouri State with a 6 game win streak. One of those games is where they beat us at our place. They are going to be very confident.

Over the last three games:

MSU beat Drake by 3.
MSU beat Creighton, at home, by only 1 point.
MSU beat Indiana State by only 1 point.

I think MSU is looking pretty vulnerable, and I would love to see them lose this game.