MAN UP COACHES

[wusphlash]

Before anyone gets excited, this is not a diatribe about the current staff. There are plenty of other threads discussing strategy, line-ups, etc.. Instead, it is some thoughts on those coaches who left the MVC for greener pastures.

Valley coaches often, and rightfully so, express frustration at not being able to get BCS type schools into our arenas. The best we are offered is opportunities to come play at their house with no return game. Our coaches struggle with this inequity and plead their case for level playing fields. You would think that those coaches that have taken opportunities at BCS type schools would certainly make a point to rectify this situation. After all these are honorable men, right?

Let’s take the following coaches; Kevin Stallings, Steve Alford, Bruce Weber, Matt Painter, Greg McDermott, Mark Turgeon and Keno Davis. Between the seven of them they have 80 seasons of basketball after leaving the MVC. There have been 50 regular season games between these coaches and MVC schools. Twelve have been at neutral sites (7 wins, 5 losses), nineteen home games (13-6) and nineteen games at MVC arenas (8-11). Of those 50 games, 28 were mandated by either the state of Iowa or the MVC/MW matchups. Subtract the 12 games on neutral courts (in season tourneys) and that leaves 10, TEN, X, contests played between MVC schools and former coaches by choice. Eighty seasons, 630 non-conference scheduling opportunities and these guys have scheduled MVC schools 10 times. Seven at home.

A breakdown of total non-conference scheduling opportunities and MVC teams played is as follows:

Kevin Stallings: 152 and 2 (both on neutral courts)
Steve Alford: 172-25 (most due to Iowa and MVC/MW)
Bruce Weber: 107-5 (three neutral court games, two at home)
Matt Painter: 75-7 (Matt had games at MVC schools his first two years, lost both)
Greg McDermott: 59-11 (Again, most due to Iowa)
Mark Turgeon: 59-0 (Zero. Really? Come on Mark)
Keno Davis: 37-0 (I guess it is a long way to Rhode Island)

I don’t know about you but I think these coaches should man-up and remember where they came from. In a perfect world where I were King, it would be mandated. In the world we live in today they would simply blow off the question.

I would be interested in others opinion on this topic. Should they be held accountable to their scheduling complaints from the time they were coaching MVC schools????

[electricmayhem]

I'll say this -- in the current system, and with the way the NCAA is set up, it doesn't do them any good to play mid-major programs, unless it's a money thing. Do I wish some of these guys would come back and play against their old schools? Yes... but they have nothing to gain, especially if their new program is succeeding.

With A&M having great success, there is no reason for Turgeon to want to come back and play a Valley school, and risk losing.

[wusphlash]

I'll say this -- in the current system, and with the way the NCAA is set up, it doesn't do them any good to play mid-major programs, unless it's a money thing. Do I wish some of these guys would come back and play against their old schools? Yes... but they have nothing to gain, especially if their new program is succeeding.

With A&M having great success, there is no reason for Turgeon to want to come back and play a Valley school, and risk losing.

I think they do fear coming into a Valley arena and losing. However, does a loss in a Valley arena do any more damage than beating a SWAC team at home in the RPI arena? Also, while WSU has taken the stance of not taking anything less than a home and home arrangement, I suspect some of the other Valley brethern might take a road game for the money. I doubt they are being offered.

[AndShock]

I'll say this -- in the current system, and with the way the NCAA is set up, it doesn't do them any good to play mid-major programs, unless it's a money thing. Do I wish some of these guys would come back and play against their old schools? Yes... but they have nothing to gain, especially if their new program is succeeding.

With A&M having great success, there is no reason for Turgeon to want to come back and play a Valley school, and risk losing.

I think they do fear coming into a Valley arena and losing. However, does a loss in a Valley arena do any more damage than beating a SWAC team at home in the RPI arena? Also, while WSU has taken the stance of not taking anything less than a home and home arrangement, I suspect some of the other Valley brethern might take a road game for the money. I doubt they are being offered.

Let's say Turgeon loses to Jacobson over and over again. Why wouldn't aTm want Jacobson to take over for Turgeon if Turgeon goes 18-14 or something?

[SHOXAAC]

wusphlash - I applaud you on your research and take on this very interesting topic. We certainly heard some of these coaches "Merlot, Pinot, Chardonnay" their feelings about this while at MVC institutions. You would think they might have a "soft" spot in their heart, but "short-term" memory prevails once again. Again, nice job.

[Ricardo del Rio]

MVC,

1. Thanks.

2. Facts are always king.

[pinstripers]

No, sofa is always king.

[electricmayhem]

I'll say this -- in the current system, and with the way the NCAA is set up, it doesn't do them any good to play mid-major programs, unless it's a money thing. Do I wish some of these guys would come back and play against their old schools? Yes... but they have nothing to gain, especially if their new program is succeeding.

With A&M having great success, there is no reason for Turgeon to want to come back and play a Valley school, and risk losing.

I think they do fear coming into a Valley arena and losing. However, does a loss in a Valley arena do any more damage than beating a SWAC team at home in the RPI arena? Also, while WSU has taken the stance of not taking anything less than a home and home arrangement, I suspect some of the other Valley brethern might take a road game for the money. I doubt they are being offered.

If the team is a BCS school that is either on the bubble or playing for a better seed in the dance, a loss to a Valley team hurts much worse than beating a SWAC team. Losses are losses, especially when the biased national media can call them "bad" losses.

[wusphlash]

I'll say this -- in the current system, and with the way the NCAA is set up, it doesn't do them any good to play mid-major programs, unless it's a money thing. Do I wish some of these guys would come back and play against their old schools? Yes... but they have nothing to gain, especially if their new program is succeeding.

With A&M having great success, there is no reason for Turgeon to want to come back and play a Valley school, and risk losing.

I think they do fear coming into a Valley arena and losing. However, does a loss in a Valley arena do any more damage than beating a SWAC team at home in the RPI arena? Also, while WSU has taken the stance of not taking anything less than a home and home arrangement, I suspect some of the other Valley brethern might take a road game for the money. I doubt they are being offered.

If the team is a BCS school that is either on the bubble or playing for a better seed in the dance, a loss to a Valley team hurts much worse than beating a SWAC team. Losses are losses, especially when the biased national media can call them "bad" losses.

And thus the title of this thread, "MAN UP COACHES". They should back up what they said, not just their paycheck. Maybe I'm just too idealistic.

[Aargh]

Just make a deal to schedule a home-and-home starting in 4 years in exchange for permission to talk to a coach. If the BCS school really wants the coach, they might make the deal. Give the 4 years to let the effect of coaching against recruited players go away.

[DUShock]

Re: MAN UP COACHES

Before anyone gets excited, this is not a diatribe about the current staff. There are plenty of other threads discussing strategy, line-ups, etc.. Instead, it is some thoughts on those coaches who left the MVC for greener pastures.

Valley coaches often, and rightfully so, express frustration at not being able to get BCS type schools into our arenas. The best we are offered is opportunities to come play at their house with no return game. Our coaches struggle with this inequity and plead their case for level playing fields. You would think that those coaches that have taken opportunities at BCS type schools would certainly make a point to rectify this situation. After all these are honorable men, right?

Let’s take the following coaches; Kevin Stallings, Steve Alford, Bruce Weber, Matt Painter, Greg McDermott, Mark Turgeon and Keno Davis. Between the seven of them they have 80 seasons of basketball after leaving the MVC. There have been 50 regular season games between these coaches and MVC schools. Twelve have been at neutral sites (7 wins, 5 losses), nineteen home games (13-6) and nineteen games at MVC arenas (8-11). Of those 50 games, 28 were mandated by either the state of Iowa or the MVC/MW matchups. Subtract the 12 games on neutral courts (in season tourneys) and that leaves 10, TEN, X, contests played between MVC schools and former coaches by choice. Eighty seasons, 630 non-conference scheduling opportunities and these guys have scheduled MVC schools 10 times. Seven at home.

A breakdown of total non-conference scheduling opportunities and MVC teams played is as follows:

Kevin Stallings: 152 and 2 (both on neutral courts)
Steve Alford: 172-25 (most due to Iowa and MVC/MW)
Bruce Weber: 107-5 (three neutral court games, two at home)
Matt Painter: 75-7 (Matt had games at MVC schools his first two years, lost both)
Greg McDermott: 59-11 (Again, most due to Iowa)
Mark Turgeon: 59-0 (Zero. Really? Come on Mark)
Keno Davis: 37-0 (I guess it is a long way to Rhode Island)

I don’t know about you but I think these coaches should man-up and remember where they came from. In a perfect world where I were King, it would be mandated. In the world we live in today they would simply blow off the question.

I would be interested in others opinion on this topic. Should they be held accountable to their scheduling complaints from the time they were coaching MVC schools????

Where you stand depends upon where you sit...

[Kung Wu]

Just make a deal to schedule a home-and-home starting in 4 years in exchange for permission to talk to a coach. If the BCS school really wants the coach, they might make the deal. Give the 4 years to let the effect of coaching against recruited players go away.

Interesting concept. Not sure just talking with a coach would be good -- we'd lose out on hiring potentially strong candidates that aren't agreeable (it prevents them from being scouted).

But you could revise your concept that a coach has a "drag along" when you hire them, that if they change coaching positions, the new entity is forced to include two home-and-away contracts with the school within a certain period of time or something like that.

That wouldn't prevent a coach from being scouted, and wouldn't be that onerous on a school that really needs an upgrade.

[pogo]

Just make a deal to schedule a home-and-home starting in 4 years in exchange for permission to talk to a coach. If the BCS school really wants the coach, they might make the deal. Give the 4 years to let the effect of coaching against recruited players go away.

Interesting concept. Not sure just talking with a coach would be good -- we'd lose out on hiring potentially strong candidates that aren't agreeable (it prevents them from being scouted).

But you could revise your concept that a coach has a "drag along" when you hire them, that if they change coaching positions, the new entity is forced to include two home-and-away contracts with the school within a certain period of time or something like that.

That wouldn't prevent a coach from being scouted, and wouldn't be that onerous on a school that really needs an upgrade.

I like it alot. :good:

[jdmee]

It would have to go along with the "buy out" clause. X dollars with a home and home arrangement.

[DUShock]

A home and home could even be written into the coach's employment agreement when he first arrives in Wichita with final decision going to WSU.