Northern Iowa vs. WSU game thread

[SHOXAAC]

[quote="Snapshot9"]Kyles adds dimensions to our Offense, and good Defense sometimes.quote]

He is a specialist...a 3-point shooting specialist. That's all he does. 9 of his 11 shots tonight were 3's, which is about his season ratio. He did hit 4 of them, but several of the ones he missed were ill-advised at best. Am I the only one that see's Kyles as a liability on offense. I think most people got caught up in the phenomenal start to the season he had, which was an anomaly. He went from averaging about 19 points a game & shooting 60-some % from 3 - to averaging 11 points and 44% from 3. That means in the last dozen games or so he is averaging about 7 points and about 30% from 3. He is a good defender, but is a liability on offense IMO.

[ShockerFever]

Up until Valley play started and you entered the pick'ems contest, you posted at the following times:

- after the UCONN loss
- after the San Diego State loss
- after the MSU loss
- in defense of Kansas State fans
- after the UNI loss

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm really getting my buttons pushed tonight after the flop of a game. I certainly don't need you pushing any more.

[vancedave56]

[quote="SHOXMVC"]

Kyles adds dimensions to our Offense, and good Defense sometimes.quote]

He is a specialist...a 3-point shooting specialist. That's all he does. 9 of his 11 shots tonight were 3's, which is about his season ratio. He did hit 4 of them, but several of the ones he missed were ill-advised at best. Am I the only one that see's Kyles as a liability on offense. I think most people got caught up in the phenomenal start to the season he had, which was an anomaly. He went from averaging about 19 points a game & shooting 60-some % from 3 - to averaging 11 points and 44% from 3. That means in the last dozen games or so he is averaging about 7 points and about 30% from 3. He is a good defender, but is a liability on offense IMO.

I do not see him as a liability on offense at all - he is mainly shooting threes (most of the time we need them). We also need him to drive and to kick it into high gear more often. IMO, Kyles along with JT should be our "goto" guys when we need to score.

[ShockerFever]

[quote="SHOXMVC"]

Kyles adds dimensions to our Offense, and good Defense sometimes.quote]

He is a specialist...a 3-point shooting specialist. That's all he does. 9 of his 11 shots tonight were 3's, which is about his season ratio. He did hit 4 of them, but several of the ones he missed were ill-advised at best. Am I the only one that see's Kyles as a liability on offense. I think most people got caught up in the phenomenal start to the season he had, which was an anomaly. He went from averaging about 19 points a game & shooting 60-some % from 3 - to averaging 11 points and 44% from 3. That means in the last dozen games or so he is averaging about 7 points and about 30% from 3. He is a good defender, but is a liability on offense IMO.

It's just you.

The same could be said tenfold about Murry but yet you never seem to mention him.

[tropicalshox]

[quote="SHOXMVC"]

Kyles adds dimensions to our Offense, and good Defense sometimes.quote]

He is a specialist...a 3-point shooting specialist. That's all he does. 9 of his 11 shots tonight were 3's, which is about his season ratio. He did hit 4 of them, but several of the ones he missed were ill-advised at best. Am I the only one that see's Kyles as a liability on offense. I think most people got caught up in the phenomenal start to the season he had, which was an anomaly. He went from averaging about 19 points a game & shooting 60-some % from 3 - to averaging 11 points and 44% from 3. That means in the last dozen games or so he is averaging about 7 points and about 30% from 3. He is a good defender, but is a liability on offense IMO.

Kyles a liability on offense? You might not be the only one that believes that, but I'm sure you are in the minority.

[shockerfanmas]

Actually I did post after the Creighton win to let trop know that he gave me a point I didn't earn. So yes, you are mistaken

[Snapshot9]

[quote="SHOXMVC"]

Kyles adds dimensions to our Offense, and good Defense sometimes.quote]

He is a specialist...a 3-point shooting specialist. That's all he does. 9 of his 11 shots tonight were 3's, which is about his season ratio. He did hit 4 of them, but several of the ones he missed were ill-advised at best. Am I the only one that see's Kyles as a liability on offense. I think most people got caught up in the phenomenal start to the season he had, which was an anomaly. He went from averaging about 19 points a game & shooting 60-some % from 3 - to averaging 11 points and 44% from 3. That means in the last dozen games or so he is averaging about 7 points and about 30% from 3. He is a good defender, but is a liability on offense IMO.

I disagree with you a whole lot. He is not a specialist, but he has a good shot, and has helped us several games when we needed it, and even sparked runs after he made a 3 or so. He also dribble drives to the basket sometimes, hits dunks sometimes, and makes some terrific blocks sometimes. He is NOT 1 dimensional, like say, Sean Ogirri was.
I would say he makes us more dangerous Offensively than we would be without him.

[ShockerFever]

Actually I did post after the Creighton win to let trop know that he gave me a point I didn't earn. So yes, you are mistaken

And that's all you came with, was a sentence about your standing in the contest. Not one mention about the game.

So yes, you got owned.

[lostshocker]

after halfheartedly watching the replay, the refs could have been a little more consistent but werent bad for the most part. still need learn that anyone with the last name koch will flop the entire game. and it never ceases to amaze me how a ref can see through a defender and tell if contact was made.

as for the shox themselves their help defense still needs work. most likely a communication problem. but that's probably been stated already.

this was my first chance at watching them this year. and knowing they lost before tuning in kind of kills the enjoyment.

[another shocker]

It's an enigma.. WSU has depth, yet something is missing. When your starting point guard -and best ball-handler by far- averages only about 20 minutes a game.. it just doesn't sound right.

After the MSU game somebody posed the question is Marshall too loyal to Murry- I wonder if he is too loyal to Murry and Hatch? When Ragland finally got the start, it wasn't Hatch that got moved over.. it was Kyles?

WSU has depth, but something is missing.

[proshox]

How many times is Kyles supposed to drive in a game to be considered multidimensional? 3,4, or 5

Here is what I can remember without game film:

Pull up 12 footer from right baseline - good
Drive in dish for a gb dunk
Drive opposite baseline draws a foul
Drives and gets blocked from behind by Koch
Drive and cut off late in second half.... Kicked ball to guard

For those counting that is five and I didn't have game film...

And he was forced to take at least two threes... He received the ball with a second on the shot clock on one and the other was from forty feet with time running out. I would count him as 4-8 at the worst...


A player that typically attracts two defenders thirty
feet from the basket is not a liability. Could he better? Of course, but use some facts in your argument.

[proshox]

Is UNI designed to beat pressure? It seems like 11 invites guards to come at him so he can just use his strength to get a shoulder by his defender. They have been kicking WSU's butt for a while and he has been a factor for the last three years. WSU is not the only "athletic team" to get easily handled by UNI and I am starting to believe he is the main reason. They seem to struggle against "low pressure- keep a man in front" at all times defenses.

Throughout the game, except for a period when zone d was used our answer was more pressure, more effort, but he didn't turn the ball over and they kept scoring...

[Kung Wu]

The thing is .. overall .. we didn't play that bad. Like Sub said about the SDSU loss -- isn't that we lost that caused the Shockernet meltdown, it was the way we lost. This was a completely different story.

Last night wasn't the same comedy of errors type loss that gives you that queezy feeling in your stomach.

No loss feels good, but at least we had two players that stepped up and hit very big shots at the end, and there wasn't the complete headcase breakdown.

We just got beat in a hard fought battle. It was a good game to watch, and UNI brought their A game. Dammit.

[pinstripers]

Stop dribble penetration
Stop dribble penetration
Stop dribble penetration
Stop dribble penetration
Stop dribble penetration
Stop dribble penetration
Stop dribble penetration
Stop dribble penetration
Stop dribble penetration
Stop dribble penetration
Stop dribble penetration
Stop dribble penetration
Stop dribble penetration
Stop dribble penetration
Stop dribble penetration
Stop dribble penetration

[SHOXAAC]

How many times is Kyles supposed to drive in a game to be considered multidimensional? 3,4, or 5

Here is what I can remember without game film:

Pull up 12 footer from right baseline - good
Drive in dish for a gb dunk
Drive opposite baseline draws a foul
Drives and gets blocked from behind by Koch
Drive and cut off late in second half.... Kicked ball to guard

For those counting that is five and I didn't have game film...

And he was forced to take at least two threes... He received the ball with a second on the shot clock on one and the other was from forty feet with time running out. I would count him as 4-8 at the worst...


A player that typically attracts two defenders thirty
feet from the basket is not a liability. Could he better? Of course, but use some facts in your argument.

How's this for facts:

I think we all agree Kyles should be one of our best couple of players...period. To me he has been disappointing overall. As I said in my previous post many people have been sucked in by his great start during non-con.

Arguably, our most gifted, athletic player chucks up 3's at a 70% clip of all shots taken. Oh yea, he was the belle of the ball in non-con when he hit 54% of them, but since conference started he has slipped just a bit to 30%.

You wanted to make a needle in the haystack stab at convincing this board that Kyles is this omni-deminsional player aside from shooting 3's. How he drives and dishes. Well I'm thrilled your memory is very tunnel vision. You point out the one dish to GB for a dunk. Hell, I'm sure Aaron Ellis, with his 10 total assists on the year, had a nice dish at some point this year as well that resulted in a dunk. But why don't you explain to me why DK has 0 or 1 assists in 11 of the 19 games? If he is really double-teamed like your story goes, why then doesn't he find the open man and increase his 1.5 assists per game?

And because you like to selectively remember only what makes your micro-point, explain to me why he has not taken a FT in 11 of 19 games and only 2 attempts in 4 other games? If he drives like you report, why doesn't he get to the stripe more?

His scoring average has slipped to 9.5 in conference vs. 13.4 in non-con. Your go-to players are supposed to shine when it really means something.

He is too talented to be this one deminsional. Why is this so hard to understand?

Just reporting the facts ma'am...just sayin.