Quick Stats

[Kung Wu]

There are lots of cool stats out there, so I thought I would start a thread where we could add quick stats as the season progresses.

I just can't get this stat out of my head:

- Wichita State has been to the NCAA tournament 8 times since the NCAA tourney began in 1939.

- Gregg Marshall has been a head coach for 12 years (going on 13) and has been to the dance 7 times.

HC3GM has been to the tournament one less time, in 12 years, than our entire university has in 71 years.

Are we fortunate, or what?

[wufan]

That is impressive, however, it should be noted that before the 1960's. the NIT was where you REALLY wanted to be, and the NCAA was secondary. Also, when WSU went to the dance in 1964 there were only 8 or 16 teams that were invited. HCGM has never been higher than a 9 seed, so you can discount any years prior to the expansion to 64 teams (also you can discount some years WSU went). WSU has probably been 3 times in the past 25 years and HCGM has been 7.

[capnkirk]

Mike Kennedy pointed out in pregame yesterday that there was a time when each conference could only send only 1 team to the ncaa's.

[wufan]

And when the MVC had Cincinatti and Memphis, that would have been difficult.

[1972Shocker]

I agree we are lucky to have 3G. However, think your statistical analysis is a little misleading.

You have to remember that during the Valley of Death days in the 1960's when the MVC was considered as good as or better than any other conference in the land the MVC was a one-bid conference. Those were the days when Cincinnati was winning national championships. Prior to the 1960's the NIT was considered the premier national college basketball tournament. It wasn't until the mid to late 1960's that the NCAA clearly overtook the NIT in prestige. Of course, since that time the NCAA field has been repeatedly and greatly expanded. There were only 22 to 25 teams in the field from 1953 to 1974 which has gradually been expanded to the current field of 68.

Mike Kennedy was talking about the 1962-63 season last night. That was the year the Shocks behind Dave the Rave's 46-point effort halted #1 Cinciannati's 37 game winning streak with 65-64 win in Wichita. Of course, the Shocks did not make the Tournament much back then since only the MVC regular season champ made it. And some considered winning the MVC Championship a tougher feat than winning the NCAA Tournament at that time. I think Mike said that was Cincy's only loss that year until they lost to Loyola - Chicago in the NCAA Championship Game. Loyola - Chicago lost only one game that year. A 73-72 loss to the Shocks in Chicago on March 16th. The Shocks finished the year ranked 5th in the nation in the final polls.

That said I am very glad we have 3G steering the ship at this point in time.

[WstateU]

Re: Quick Stats

There are lots of cool stats out there, so I thought I would start a thread where we could add quick stats as the season progresses.

I just can't get this stat out of my head:

- Wichita State has been to the NCAA tournament 8 times since the NCAA tourney began in 1939.

- Gregg Marshall has been a head coach for 12 years (going on 13) and has been to the dance 7 times.

HC3GM has been to the tournament one less time, in 12 years, than our entire university has in 71 years.

Are we fortunate, or what?

Sorry, it looks like I'm a day late and a dollar shot with this post, but here goes...

Yes, we’re very fortunate; however here’s the ‘what’:

The 10 NIT appearances listed below are nothing to sneeze at and the first four (1954, 1962, 1963, 1966) are somewhat misleading. Many moons ago the NIT was almost as prestigious as the NCAA tournament. The Valley was considered the best conference in the country and you had to win it to go to the NCAA tournament. Fighting the likes of Cincinnati and Louisville made it very difficult to make the dance even if you finished in the top 3 of the league (others can correct me if I’m wrong). Not to take anything away from coach Marshall’s success at Winthrop, but there’s a significant difference between the 2 schools and their history. As SHOXMVC would say, “just sayin’ and sayin’ and sayin’ and sayin’”…………………………………………………………… :D

NCAA Tournaments (8 Eight): 1964, 1965 (Final Four), 1976, 1981 (Elite Eight), 1985, 1987, 1988, 2006

NIT Appearances (10): 1954, 1962, 1963, 1966, 1980, 1984, 1989, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2010

CBI Appearances (1): 2009

Valley Regular-Season Championships (6): 1964, 1965, 1976, 1981, 1983, 2006

P.S. I love coach Marshall and I hope he stays and hangs multiple NCAA banners.

[Ixiah]

Mike Kennedy pointed out in pregame yesterday that there was a time when each conference could only send only 1 team to the ncaa's.

Can you imagine what that a rule like that would result in now?! Some of those lower tier Big East teams would be the equivalent of the Chicago Cubs.

[Shocker85]

Re: Quick Stats

- Gregg Marshall has been a head coach for 12 years (going on 13) and has been to the dance 7 times.

Are we fortunate, or what?

... and from the Captain Obvious department ...

Marshall coached a good team in a BAD conference for those 7 NCAA appearances. Winthrop was the Big South automatic qualifier all 7 times and was seeded 14-15-16 in 6 of those 7 times.

The proof in Marshall's ability began in the 2006 tournament when they took Tennessee to the wire in the first round, and then finally won a game in 2007. The 2007 Winthrop team was good and he had good recuits coming in behind them.

Marshall was entrenched in his comfort zone at Winthrop and Jim Shaus' ability to sell Wichita and Wichita State basketball to him was the beginning of our good fortune. I suspect Marshall understood the limitations of staying in a one-bid conference and the time was right to explore his options. He had turned-down other jobs, but a perfect storm matched Marshall with WSU.

The man can recruit and coach, he is passionate about college basketball and is well connected. We have seen a bunch of coaches come and go, and I don't recall another in my exposure to the program more passionate and driven. The alignment of circumstances was perfect for WSU, and we all hope perfect for the Marshalls.

Fortunate? Absolutely. Perhaps a little lucky? Maybe.

--'85.

[Kung Wu]

I agree we are lucky to have 3G. However, think your statistical analysis is a little misleading.

Hahaha, calling what I did statistical analysis is being way too kind. All I did was look up how long the NCAA tourney was running, how many times WSU was there and compare. I didn't even think about the NIT, like several of you guys mentioned.

The datapoint by itself stands as it is, but you are right, it's out of context. I'll think about the posts here and come up with something more meaningful when I am less groggy.

[Kung Wu]

Re: Quick Stats

- Gregg Marshall has been a head coach for 12 years (going on 13) and has been to the dance 7 times.

Are we fortunate, or what?

... and from the Captain Obvious department ...

Marshall coached a good team in a BAD conference for those 7 NCAA appearances. Winthrop was the Big South automatic qualifier all 7 times and was seeded 14-15-16 in 6 of those 7 times.

I had considered this, and used to think right along those lines. But after giving it more thought, I don't think it's as relevant as I initially thought. I'll lay out my reasoning tomorrow when I am fresh, but one question for you in the mean time: Of the 33 conferences out there, how many of them are "bad"? Obviously there's no right or wrong here, but I am thinking perhaps the bottom 1/2 of them would be considered "bad"? Maybe more, maybe less?

[Shocker85]

Re: Quick Stats

I had considered this, and used to think right along those lines. But after giving it more thought, I don't think it's as relevant as I initially thought. I'll lay out my reasoning tomorrow when I am fresh, but one question for you in the mean time: Of the 33 conferences out there, how many of them are "bad"? Obviously there's no right or wrong here, but I am thinking perhaps the bottom 1/2 of them would be considered "bad"? Maybe more, maybe less?

It probably isn't worth debating, really. Sorta ancient history now. Besides, his consistent success at Winthrop probably trumps everything else. Some guys can get their teams to peak when it matters most, and it seems Marshall did that to get into the NCAA tournament.

As for the conference thing, I'll let those with superior skills google themselves for fodder for that debate.

--'85.

[wufan]

I'm just going to say that if you're a one bid conference (ugh...MVC) you aren't good. There are probably 15 conferences where the favorite doesn't win the automatic but still gets in (woohoo...MVC). Everyone else is a bad conference.