Final Four Darkhorse

[SHOXAAC]

DeCourcy did not select us as a final four pick. He picked us as being, in his opinion, his best guess as a mid-major team standing a "chance" as a darkhorse (like GMU and Butler in recent years) of possibly getting that far.

So all he is saying is that if some little guy is going to come out of the field and run the dice, the Shocks may be the one to do it. That's one man's opinion.

So what's the problem? I would even hazzard a guess that if 100 sports writers were asked to select a final four darkhorse pick today, Mr. DeCourcy would not be the only one throwing our name in in the hat.

It's about as effective & logical as picking a "darkhorse" through the process of "pin the tail on the donkey," a very big donkey I might add.

[WstateU]

DeCourcy did not select us as a final four pick. He picked us as being, in his opinion, his best guess as a mid-major team standing a "chance" as a darkhorse (like GMU and Butler in recent years) of possibly getting that far.

So all he is saying is that if some little guy is going to come out of the field and run the dice, the Shocks may be the one to do it. That's one man's opinion.

So what's the problem? I would even hazzard a guess that if 100 sports writers were asked to select a final four darkhorse pick today, Mr. DeCourcy would not be the only one throwing our name in in the hat.

It's about as effective & logical as picking a "darkhorse" through the process of "pin the tail on the donkey," a very big donkey I might add.

[SubGod22]

Isn't the Final Four the goal? It should be. I know the odds are never in our favor but aiming for less is a waste. We are capable of playing with and beating any team in the country. Just making the Dance is NOT enough. I do not want to be one of those teams that is just happy to be there. That's embarassing.

We're a dangerous team with a lot of weapons. We have size, speed and athleticism. We have a great coaching staff and some of the greatest fans on the planet. I know recent history isn't on our side but who gives a damn? Things change and we CAN be that team. With 3G at the helm I believe we WILL be that team.

We're going to do a lot of dancing in the future and make a lot of noise.

[WstateU]

Isn't the Final Four the goal? It should be. I know the odds are never in our favor but aiming for less is a waste. We are capable of playing with and beating any team in the country. Just making the Dance is NOT enough. I do not want to be one of those teams that is just happy to be there. That's embarassing.

We're a dangerous team with a lot of weapons. We have size, speed and athleticism. We have a great coaching staff and some of the greatest fans on the planet. I know recent history isn't on our side but who gives a damn? Things change and we CAN be that team. With 3G at the helm I believe we WILL be that team.

We're going to do a lot of dancing in the future and make a lot of noise.

Thank God for SubGod… :good: :good:

[Maggie]

Isn't the Final Four the goal? It should be. I know the odds are never in our favor but aiming for less is a waste. We are capable of playing with and beating any team in the country. Just making the Dance is NOT enough. I do not want to be one of those teams that is just happy to be there. That's embarassing.

We're a dangerous team with a lot of weapons. We have size, speed and athleticism. We have a great coaching staff and some of the greatest fans on the planet. I know recent history isn't on our side but who gives a damn? Things change and we CAN be that team. With 3G at the helm I believe we WILL be that team.

We're going to do a lot of dancing in the future and make a lot of noise.

Preach on, brother. :yes: :clap:

[Kung Wu]

I'd rather WSU be talked/written about in a positve manner than rarely mentioned at all.

Talked & written about is one thing, but credible talking & writing is a whole different animal. As I said earlier in the thread, I am a huge WSU fan, but reading DeCourcy's SN piece about us being a "darkhorse" is a bit comical in a way. The "darkhorse" label could have been thrown on Northwestern, Portland, Princeton, Vermont, Kent State, blah, blah, blah.

I believe our ability to schedule against good teams depends on this type of media, whether you think it's accurate or not. The only way a "dangerous" mid-major gets to play against big-name teams is to be respected enough in the media that losing to us is not a "bad loss". Without continued positive support from the media, scheduling good teams seems very difficult.

Go ask HCGM if he even knows DeCourcy, let alone reads what he writes, or others like him. I can't wait for coaches response when you ask him what response he gets from other coaches when he presents them with this Sporting News article when attempting to schedule a game. I'm positive he will have an open mind about this.
;-)

The price of tea in China only costs $0.02/bag.

The media read each other's opinions and rightfully and wrongfully start drawing conclusions from each other. Couple that momentum in the media with continued winning, and suddenly your name is getting recognized enough.

[Kung Wu]

Isn't the Final Four the goal? It should be. I know the odds are never in our favor but aiming for less is a waste. We are capable of playing with and beating any team in the country. Just making the Dance is NOT enough. I do not want to be one of those teams that is just happy to be there. That's embarassing.

We're a dangerous team with a lot of weapons. We have size, speed and athleticism. We have a great coaching staff and some of the greatest fans on the planet. I know recent history isn't on our side but who gives a damn? Things change and we CAN be that team. With 3G at the helm I believe we WILL be that team.

We're going to do a lot of dancing in the future and make a lot of noise.

Yes, what's awesome is HC3GM surely has been there enough times to not be satisfied with just being there anymore. Of course just getting back there with a new team will be an accomplishment the first year, but after that he's gotta be salivating to show off his new weapons! I know we are!

[SHOXAAC]

Isn't the Final Four the goal? It should be. I know the odds are never in our favor but aiming for less is a waste. We are capable of playing with and beating any team in the country. Just making the Dance is NOT enough. I do not want to be one of those teams that is just happy to be there. That's embarassing.

We're a dangerous team with a lot of weapons. We have size, speed and athleticism. We have a great coaching staff and some of the greatest fans on the planet. I know recent history isn't on our side but who gives a damn? Things change and we CAN be that team. With 3G at the helm I believe we WILL be that team.

We're going to do a lot of dancing in the future and make a lot of noise.

:wsu_posters: :goshocks: :posterwu: :posterwsu:

Sub, I didn't take too much time researching it, however I can't find the final four as a goal for anyone...fans, coaches, players etc...I have heard and read that winning the regular season & conference tourny is a goal by many. Have you forgotten all the spirited discussion on this board about what the Shockers have to do to MAKE the dance without winning the conference tournament? That subject got quite a bit of interest. I know, I was right in the middle of it. I could be mistaken, but I don't remember any SN poster saying "hey wait a minute...SCREW winning the conference title & conference tourny, let's get to the final four." And for that matter, why stop there. I haven't heard anybody saying "hey wait a minute...SCREW getting to the final four...let's win the whole thing."

Now that some writer makes a reference to WSU going to the final four because he happened to have a donkey and pin handy at the time, all of Shocker nation is going to change stripes and go down that road... :whistle:

All I am saying is don't jump from A-Z without visiting the other 24 members of the alphabet. In order to accomplish what the messiah DeCoursy predicts we would have to play as well last night 4 times. Don't get me wrong...I like this team alot. Playing like we did last night against E-puke is one thing, but doing it against the likes of the competition at the dance is a whole other animal.

I have always been told when making goals "Make them tough, but reasonably attainable if the work and planning are consistent with the perceived outcome."

Last thing. I believe our guard play is capable of getting us very far this season. Let's face it however, our bigs are soft in the big picture (outside of the Valley).

[vbird53]

Have you forgotten all the spirited discussion on this board about what the Shockers have to do to MAKE the dance without winning the conference tournament? That subject got quite a bit of interest. I know, I was right in the middle of it. I could be mistaken, but I don't remember any SN poster saying "hey wait a minute...SCREW winning the conference title & conference tourny, let's get to the final four." And for that matter, why stop there. I haven't heard anybody saying "hey wait a minute...SCREW getting to the final four...let's win the whole thing."

I think the two (winning the Valley Conference Tourney just to get a bid, and being capable of winning games in the NCAA Tourney) are two completely separate issues.

One has to do with the selection process, and it's been fairly inequitable at times for smaller conference schools, and the other is closer related to play on the court.

Once a team gets that bid, they should have every intention of winning games while there. This particular team might prove to be quite a load, especially in a tournament (win or go home) type of scenario.

[shockar25]

Folks,
While we should all revel in the win we enjoyed last night (and the team was truly awesome), to speculate with any confidence on how the rest of the Valley schedule will transpire is a bit premature. I share everyone's optimism, but i think it's safe to say that we will have plenty of headaches from other Valley foes this season. Does anyone think that Creighton, or Missouri State or UNI or for that matter any other Valley team are going to roll over and play dead? We'll lose some games--it's just the way it is, and in a way it's good because if we didn't lose a few, the Valley would have to be TERRIBLE, because we are not THAT good--good, possibly even great in time, we actually need the Valley to pose plenty of threat and challenge because otherwise we're going to be in for a rude awakening if we are fortunate enough to make the dance.

This 'prediction' or whatever you call it by this guy is just a guy who sits at his desk 100's of miles from Wichita looking at stats and possibly listening to some of his writer friends and having NEVER stepped foot in Koch Arena speaking his mind at this moment in time. Next week his darkhorse pick will probably be UNI or someone else.

We just need to win baby win. Everything else will take care of itself. Obviously we won't win every game, but as the 'Ref said, one game at a time. This team still has a LOT LOT LOT of proving to do. Now, let's be happy with the win--enjoy it until Saturday, when it will be time to take care of more unfinished Valley business.

GO SHOX!

[RoyalShock]

SHOXMVC, I have no idea why you're channeling KC Shox, but you are.

A darkhorse pick is a team that no one expects to accomplish the goal in question, but has the makeup to do it given favorable circumstances.

Please tell me how WSU doesn't fit that?

Do other teams fit that mold, Sure? But your list of teams that could have also been selected by some fictional pin-the-tail game do not resemble WSU. You set up your own strawman there.

Whether any of us have suddenly circled the Final Four as a goal has nothing to do with whether or not WSU is a legitimate darkhorse pick by one prominent sportswriter.

If you have such a beef, maybe you should contact DeCourcy and ask him why he picked WSU. And if you have the intestinal fortitude, share his response here.

[tropicalshox]

I'd rather WSU be talked/written about in a positve manner than rarely mentioned at all.

Talked & written about is one thing, but credible talking & writing is a whole different animal. As I said earlier in the thread, I am a huge WSU fan, but reading DeCourcy's SN piece about us being a "darkhorse" is a bit comical in a way. The "darkhorse" label could have been thrown on Northwestern, Portland, Princeton, Vermont, Kent State, blah, blah, blah.

I believe our ability to schedule against good teams depends on this type of media, whether you think it's accurate or not. The only way a "dangerous" mid-major gets to play against big-name teams is to be respected enough in the media that losing to us is not a "bad loss". Without continued positive support from the media, scheduling good teams seems very difficult.

Go ask HCGM if he even knows DeCourcy, let alone reads what he writes, or others like him. I can't wait for coaches response when you ask him what response he gets from other coaches when he presents them with this Sporting News article when attempting to schedule a game. I'm positive he will have an open mind about this.
;-)

The price of tea in China only costs $0.02/bag.

The media read each other's opinions and rightfully and wrongfully start drawing conclusions from each other. Couple that momentum in the media with continued winning, and suddenly your name is getting recognized enough.

and you start getting more votes and before you know it you are deep inside the top 25. After awhile even a bad loss doesn't hurt too much because everybody thinks you pass the eye test and you've got an at large nailed down with a very nice seed. And as far as reaching the final four, a nice seed sure would help.

[SHOXAAC]

SHOXMVC, I have no idea why you're channeling KC Shox, but you are.

A darkhorse pick is a team that no one expects to accomplish the goal in question, but has the makeup to do it given favorable circumstances.

Please tell me how WSU doesn't fit that?

Do other teams fit that mold, Sure? But your list of teams that could have also been selected by some fictional pin-the-tail game do not resemble WSU. You set up your own strawman there.

Whether any of us have suddenly circled the Final Four as a goal has nothing to do with whether or not WSU is a legitimate darkhorse pick by one prominent sportswriter.

If you have such a beef, maybe you should contact DeCourcy and ask him why he picked WSU. And if you have the intestinal fortitude, share his response here.

Hey Royal - Believe it or not this all started soon after Capitol Shock started the thread about Lame Message Board. My initial posts were to have some fun on a fan message board. In fact, my second post was a line used by Cap "Just trying to provide some cheap entertainment." You posted next and my response was with :D .

smooth007, Moshock, 1972 Shocker, 60Shock and others continued. I wasn't planning on posting again until Speed, who I thought posted with "Lame Message Board" in mind, telling me "SCREW YOU...final 4 or bust." I thought it was funny, so I replied to that. Veritas commented on one of my posts...on...and on...and on.

Just having fun Royal. I don't genuinely believe one way or another in regard to Mike DeCourcy. I have read his stuff before actually.

Hey, like Speed posted to me "SCREW YOU (meaning me of course)...final 4 or bust.

:wsu_posters: :goshocks: :posterwu: :posterwsu:

[wsushox1]

SHOXMVC, I have no idea why you're channeling KC Shox, but you are.

A darkhorse pick is a team that no one expects to accomplish the goal in question, but has the makeup to do it given favorable circumstances.

Please tell me how WSU doesn't fit that?

Do other teams fit that mold, Sure? But your list of teams that could have also been selected by some fictional pin-the-tail game do not resemble WSU. You set up your own strawman there.

Whether any of us have suddenly circled the Final Four as a goal has nothing to do with whether or not WSU is a legitimate darkhorse pick by one prominent sportswriter.

If you have such a beef, maybe you should contact DeCourcy and ask him why he picked WSU. And if you have the intestinal fortitude, share his response here.

Hey Royal - Believe it or not this all started soon after Capitol Shock started the thread about Lame Message Board. My initial posts were to have some fun on a fan message board. In fact, my second post was a line used by Cap "Just trying to provide some cheap entertainment." You posted next and my response was with :D .

smooth007, Moshock, 1972 Shocker, 60Shock and others continued. I wasn't planning on posting again until Speed, who I thought posted with "Lame Message Board" in mind, telling me "SCREW YOU...final 4 or bust." I thought it was funny, so I replied to that. Veritas commented on one of my posts...on...and on...and on.

Just having fun Royal. I don't genuinely believe one way or another in regard to Mike DeCourcy. I have read his stuff before actually.

Hey, like Speed posted to me "SCREW YOU (meaning me of course)...final 4 or bust.

:wsu_posters: :goshocks: :posterwu: :posterwsu:

You're a strange fellow.

[tropicalshox]

Last night must of put me in the best of moods. SHOCKMVC just can't cut it as a Cold. I never thought I'd say it but let the guy come back. I'll just keep my doors locked during games.