DK Lock Down D

[wsushox1]

An inquiry for SHOXMVC??????? Did # 24 lead tonight with his 19 points, 0 turnovers, his defense, his Five 3-pointers, etc. etc, etc? Splain???????

His defense was average at best, but otherwise he played a great game.

He struggles to keep the ball in front of him sometimes.

[SHOXAAC]

An inquiry for SHOXMVC??????? Did # 24 lead tonight with his 19 points, 0 turnovers, his defense, his Five 3-pointers, etc. etc, etc? Splain???????

Now that I'm back from a great game at IBA, I see one of my buddies is asking for some clarity. First, let me say I love watching Kyles play. I believe he is the most talented player since Mo Evans.

Although I hate answering a question with a question, I am going to do it here. From a far, Kyles scored 19 points, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, 0 TO's & 1 steal. Do you think he led by scoring 14 of his 19 in the first 6 minutes? Where was he until about mid-to-late in the second half before he scored again? No he didn't turn it over. The 4 rebounds are nice for a SG, but 1 assist & 1 steal from arguably one of the best athletes in the MVC.

I am real confused by the defense reference you made. The 3 players he helped to guard scored the great majority of Tulsa's points. He helped on defense to hold Hurtt to 30 points. Nice effort, although he was unbelievable. But don't praise Kyles defense when he didn't really shine tonight in that department.

Once again, Kyles continues to live & die from 3. Tonight his 6-10 from the field, 5-9 from 3 was spectacular...in the first 6 minutes. Leaders do more than that. I think he will eventually, but I wouldn't put the leadership of tonights exciting victory in the lap of Kyles. You might want to watch the game again, then report back to me. Remember, leadership was your point...I think. He has to do more on offense than shoot the 3. Get back to me on that as well when he does. Till then I will root for him as much as anybody.

[ShoxFan963]

An inquiry for SHOXMVC??????? Did # 24 lead tonight with his 19 points, 0 turnovers, his defense, his Five 3-pointers, etc. etc, etc? Splain???????

Now that I'm back from a great game at IBA, I see one of my buddies is asking for some clarity. First, let me say I love watching Kyles play. I believe he is the most talented player since Mo Evans.

Although I hate answering a question with a question, I am going to do it here. From a far, Kyles scored 19 points, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, 0 TO's & 1 steal. Do you think he led by scoring 14 of his 19 in the first 6 minutes? Where was he until about mid-to-late in the second half before he scored again? No he didn't turn it over. The 4 rebounds are nice for a SG, but 1 assist & 1 steal from arguably one of the best athletes in the MVC.

I am real confused by the defense reference you made. The 3 players he helped to guard scored the great majority of Tulsa's points. He helped on defense to hold Hurtt to 30 points. Nice effort, although he was unbelievable. But don't praise Kyles defense when he didn't really shine tonight in that department.

Once again, Kyles continues to live & die from 3. Tonight his 6-10 from the field, 5-9 from 3 was spectacular...in the first 6 minutes. Leaders do more than that. I think he will eventually, but I wouldn't put the leadership of tonights exciting victory in the lap of Kyles. You might want to watch the game again, then report back to me. Remember, leadership was your point...I think. He has to do more on offense than shoot the 3. Get back to me on that as well when he does. Till then I will root for him as much as anybody.

Kyles was unconsious in the first 4 minutes, then Tulsa put the clamps on him after the media timeout. No problem, feed the ball to Stutz, then let Ellis get into the mix, then let Ben Smith put back a few, and finish it off with some tough points from GH and TM! This was a total team effort tonight. :clap:

Kyles is becoming a leader. Right now, Durley, Hatch, Ellis(yes Ellis), and Murry are the leaders. DK will be a leader next year. He needs to work on his on-ball defense, when that happens, watch out!

[pie n eye]

You have a point with David's defense tonight. At times it was completely nonexistent. I don't understand the rest of ur post though. He scored 19 points, 4 rebounds, an assist, no turnovers but somehow that's disappointing? He's not a leader because of when he scored his points? His first three 3 point shots counted just as much as his final 2 free throws which, if I remember correctly, came at a crucial moment of the game and put us up by 3 points guaranteeing at least overtime. If that isn't being a upper class leader then I'm not sure what ur expecting.

*Edit: This post was addressing ShoxMVC's post.

[SHOXAAC]

You have a point with David's defense tonight. At times it was completely nonexistent. I don't understand the rest of ur post though. He scored 19 points, 4 rebounds, an assist, no turnovers but somehow that's disappointing? He's not a leader because of when he scored his points? His first three 3 point shots counted just as much as his final 2 free throws which, if I remember correctly, came at a crucial moment of the game and put us up by 3 points guaranteeing at least overtime. If that isn't being a upper class leader then I'm not sure what ur expecting.

*Edit: This post was addressing ShoxMVC's post.

No Pie, I never said "disappointing." I was responding to FSF claim about David leading because of his performance last night. I am not disappointed in Kyles. I do, however see opportunities for him to develop into a better player. I haven't had a chance to watch the game back yet, but my guess is I will see a player who was on fire for the first 6 minutes of the game (75% of his offensive production)

I don't make up the stats, and although maybe sometimes I tell too much of a story with them, this time I don't think so. On the year 70% of Kyles field goal attempts are 3's. That's rediculous. We all remember Reggie Chamberlain. Now there is a reason a player like Reggie takes that kind of a high % from the arc. He isn't physically capable of doing the things that David can.

Although I recognize Kyles has taken a huge step over the past year, can't I want more from him? And the "more" part of it is A - obvious IMO & B - attainable. He is so quick and fast there is no reason for him not to exploit that, which means getting to the basket. If he did more of that he would have more than 1 assist in a game.

Again, I was responding to FSF calling me out about Kyles leadership last night. A leader doesn't choke with 40 seconds to go in a flip-of-the-coin game by freezing on a wide open 3 with the shot clock about to expire. Even though it didn't show up in the stats as a TO...it was because he threw up an airball as the shot clock expired. Talk to any great "leader." They want the ball in crucial situations at the end of the game. David had that chance and blew it. I have every confidence however (so please don't blow a gasket) that he will learn from that experience and lead better in the future. So Pie this is for you...read your last 2 sentences and watch the last 40 or 50 seconds...leader...don't think so...not yet anyway.

[ShoxFan963]

You have a point with David's defense tonight. At times it was completely nonexistent. I don't understand the rest of ur post though. He scored 19 points, 4 rebounds, an assist, no turnovers but somehow that's disappointing? He's not a leader because of when he scored his points? His first three 3 point shots counted just as much as his final 2 free throws which, if I remember correctly, came at a crucial moment of the game and put us up by 3 points guaranteeing at least overtime. If that isn't being a upper class leader then I'm not sure what ur expecting.

*Edit: This post was addressing ShoxMVC's post.

Again, I was responding to FSF calling me out about Kyles leadership last night. A leader doesn't choke with 40 seconds to go in a flip-of-the-coin game by freezing on a wide open 3 with the shot clock about to expire. Even though it didn't show up in the stats as a TO...it was because he threw up an airball as the shot clock expired. Talk to any great "leader." They want the ball in crucial situations at the end of the game. David had that chance and blew it. I have every confidence however (so please don't blow a gasket) that he will learn from that experience and lead better in the future. So Pie this is for you...read your last 2 sentences and watch the last 40 or 50 seconds...leader...don't think so...not yet anyway.

Did you forget that DK got the rebound with 24 seconds left and cradled the ball waiting to get fouled? He wanted to get fouled. He didn't want to pass the ball up to Murry or whoever else. He wanted to be the one shooting the free throws and he drained those free throws, no problem. That guaranteed at least overtime for us. I agree he's not a leader, but I think he is becoming more of one every game.

[pie n eye]

You have a point with David's defense tonight. At times it was completely nonexistent. I don't understand the rest of ur post though. He scored 19 points, 4 rebounds, an assist, no turnovers but somehow that's disappointing? He's not a leader because of when he scored his points? His first three 3 point shots counted just as much as his final 2 free throws which, if I remember correctly, came at a crucial moment of the game and put us up by 3 points guaranteeing at least overtime. If that isn't being a upper class leader then I'm not sure what ur expecting.

*Edit: This post was addressing ShoxMVC's post.

No Pie, I never said "disappointing." I was responding to FSF claim about David leading because of his performance last night. I am not disappointed in Kyles. I do, however see opportunities for him to develop into a better player. I haven't had a chance to watch the game back yet, but my guess is I will see a player who was on fire for the first 6 minutes of the game (75% of his offensive production)

I don't make up the stats, and although maybe sometimes I tell too much of a story with them, this time I don't think so. On the year 70% of Kyles field goal attempts are 3's. That's rediculous. We all remember Reggie Chamberlain. Now there is a reason a player like Reggie takes that kind of a high % from the arc. He isn't physically capable of doing the things that David can.

Although I recognize Kyles has taken a huge step over the past year, can't I want more from him? And the "more" part of it is A - obvious IMO & B - attainable. He is so quick and fast there is no reason for him not to exploit that, which means getting to the basket. If he did more of that he would have more than 1 assist in a game.

Again, I was responding to FSF calling me out about Kyles leadership last night. A leader doesn't choke with 40 seconds to go in a flip-of-the-coin game by freezing on a wide open 3 with the shot clock about to expire. Even though it didn't show up in the stats as a TO...it was because he threw up an airball as the shot clock expired. Talk to any great "leader." They want the ball in crucial situations at the end of the game. David had that chance and blew it. I have every confidence however (so please don't blow a gasket) that he will learn from that experience and lead better in the future. So Pie this is for you...read your last 2 sentences and watch the last 40 or 50 seconds...leader...don't think so...not yet anyway.

You're absolutely right about the open three pointer at the end of the game, Shox. I was surprised and a bit disappointed he didn't take that wide open look he can obviously knock down. But let's not forget that huge three he made at the end of the LSU game to bring us within one point. That's twice in the last two games he's made crucial baskets during the last 40 or 50 seconds (the 3 @ LSU and two free throws seal the Tulsa game).

I don't necessarily think that all leaders fit into the same mold or lead in the same way in every situation. Sometimes being a leader means hitting a crucial 3 with your team down by four points, sometimes it means making a sound decision on a drive to pass out to your teammate for the game winning three, sometimes it means scrapping and hustling for every loose ball and rebound, etc. Point is, I think we have a lot of guys on this team who are capable of and do lead in their own way.

Is David Kyle's a leader on this team? I guess it depends on your personal definition of a leader.

Does David Kyle's have room to improve? Absolutely. I don't think any person in the world could say there is nothing they could get better at.

If you have to be perfect to be a leader then I'm afraid such a thing wouldn't exist.

Please don't take this as blowing a gasket, just presenting my opinion. I enjoy substantive conversations like this with people who think before they post.

[SHOXAAC]

You have a point with David's defense tonight. At times it was completely nonexistent. I don't understand the rest of ur post though. He scored 19 points, 4 rebounds, an assist, no turnovers but somehow that's disappointing? He's not a leader because of when he scored his points? His first three 3 point shots counted just as much as his final 2 free throws which, if I remember correctly, came at a crucial moment of the game and put us up by 3 points guaranteeing at least overtime. If that isn't being a upper class leader then I'm not sure what ur expecting.

*Edit: This post was addressing ShoxMVC's post.

No Pie, I never said "disappointing." I was responding to FSF claim about David leading because of his performance last night. I am not disappointed in Kyles. I do, however see opportunities for him to develop into a better player. I haven't had a chance to watch the game back yet, but my guess is I will see a player who was on fire for the first 6 minutes of the game (75% of his offensive production)

I don't make up the stats, and although maybe sometimes I tell too much of a story with them, this time I don't think so. On the year 70% of Kyles field goal attempts are 3's. That's rediculous. We all remember Reggie Chamberlain. Now there is a reason a player like Reggie takes that kind of a high % from the arc. He isn't physically capable of doing the things that David can.

Although I recognize Kyles has taken a huge step over the past year, can't I want more from him? And the "more" part of it is A - obvious IMO & B - attainable. He is so quick and fast there is no reason for him not to exploit that, which means getting to the basket. If he did more of that he would have more than 1 assist in a game.

Again, I was responding to FSF calling me out about Kyles leadership last night. A leader doesn't choke with 40 seconds to go in a flip-of-the-coin game by freezing on a wide open 3 with the shot clock about to expire. Even though it didn't show up in the stats as a TO...it was because he threw up an airball as the shot clock expired. Talk to any great "leader." They want the ball in crucial situations at the end of the game. David had that chance and blew it. I have every confidence however (so please don't blow a gasket) that he will learn from that experience and lead better in the future. So Pie this is for you...read your last 2 sentences and watch the last 40 or 50 seconds...leader...don't think so...not yet anyway.

You're absolutely right about the open three pointer at the end of the game, Shox. I was surprised and a bit disappointed he didn't take that wide open look he can obviously knock down. But let's not forget that huge three he made at the end of the LSU game to bring us within one point. That's twice in the last two games he's made crucial baskets during the last 40 or 50 seconds (the 3 @ LSU and two free throws seal the Tulsa game).

I don't necessarily think that all leaders fit into the same mold or lead in the same way in every situation. Sometimes being a leader means hitting a crucial 3 with your team down by four points, sometimes it means making a sound decision on a drive to pass out to your teammate for the game winning three, sometimes it means scrapping and hustling for every loose ball and rebound, etc. Point is, I think we have a lot of guys on this team who are capable of and do lead in their own way.

Is David Kyle's a leader on this team? I guess it depends on your personal definition of a leader.

Does David Kyle's have room to improve? Absolutely. I don't think any person in the world could say there is nothing they could get better at.

If you have to be perfect to be a leader then I'm afraid such a thing wouldn't exist.

Please don't take this as blowing a gasket, just presenting my opinion. I enjoy substantive conversations like this with people who think before they post.

You're right...my appologies for the gasket comment. I was thinking of other posters besides you. I enjoy our discussions. Thanks for your input. It certainly gives me things to think about.

[proshox]

Dry Spells - Not DK's Problem, Coach could call more plays

I do not remember many plays where David's number was "called" by the coaching staff - if he is expected to get all his points out of the motion offense there are going to be dry spells caused by being the focus of the opposing team's defense. Furthermore, he appears to be willing to pass the ball quickly if other shockers have better angles or better position.

Outside of attempting some difficult threes he doesn't usually force his game. IMO, during his freshman year, he learned that making the right pass on time and not over dribbling into turnovers resulted in playing time.

[forevershockerfan]

Here's the deal. SHOXMVC, relax because I was NOT calling you out, just asking a question about leadership and David Kyles and I thank you for your answers. Right now, I am not sure we have a specific clear-cut leader of our leaders. However, it is early.

Last night was not a rare event that a Shocker opponent hit us with some heavy artillery. DK did not have a big night stopping some of the onslaught that Tulsa threw our way. Even so, he will definitely be asked 'game in and game out' to guard some of our foes best players. Count on it. We need DK to do so effectively without fouling, because we need him on the floor.

Now let's look at some other areas. DK shot 6-10 from the field, 2-2 timely throws, and was called on to play 33 minutes which was 2nd on the team. If DK is not the most improved Shock this Season early on, than I don't know who is. Now he is attracting some special attention from our foes. Overall, he has to be one of our more consistent players and has made some big shots. All of these improvements in my mind early on was not supposed to occur until next Season from my preseason vantage point. The fact that he is taking a faster track to improve is welcomed with open arms by us all. I think DK has already been one of our key leaders and I hope for more of the same.

[SHOXAAC]

Here's the deal. SHOXMVC, relax because I was NOT calling you out, just asking a question about leadership and David Kyles and I thank you for your answers. Right now, I am not sure we have a specific clear-cut leader of our leaders. However, it is early.

Last night was not a rare event that a Shocker opponent hit us with some heavy artillery. DK did not have a big night stopping some of the onslaught that Tulsa threw our way. Even so, he will definitely be asked 'game in and game out' to guard some of our foes best players. Count on it. We need DK to do so effectively without fouling, because we need him on the floor.

Now let's look at some other areas. DK shot 6-10 from the field, 2-2 timely throws, and was called on to play 33 minutes which was 2nd on the team. If DK is not the most improved Shock this Season early on, than I don't know who is. Now he is attracting some special attention from our foes. Overall, he has to be one of our more consistent players and has made some big shots. All of these improvements in my mind early on was not supposed to occur until next Season from my preseason vantage point. The fact that he is taking a faster track to improve is welcomed with open arms by us all. I think DK has already been one of our key leaders and I hope for more of the same.

We're good...no harm, no foul. I always look forward to a good solid discussion with you. I'm totally in your camp based on your post. I'm right in line with you in regard to not expecting the DK explosion we have seen at times this season. I honestly believe he could become one of the more dynamic players we have seen since X, Carr, Livingston, Sherrod. He has that kind of ability.

He is such a phenomenal shooter. For him to take the next step as a great player, leader etc...he must do more on offense than just shoot. Not that Haertl & Stevens are my barometer for judging players, but I watched the game on tape earlier tonight and on about 4 separate occasions one or both of them suggested David use his quickness and athletisism and go to the basket, which he didn't. Whether we like it or not he is becoming a one deminsional offensive player. When he is on, he is incredible, but if he is not hitting his shot on a given night, he can be an offensive non-factor. We can't afford that knowing how special he can be. I, along with 14,000 of our closest friends watched the Tulsa kid, Justin Hurtt, go off on our Shockers. Like Kimba Walker, Hurtt killed us with a variety of offensive manuevers. They both shot the 3, but as important they used their God-given athletic ability to get to the basket. When David does that...watch out because the sky is the limit. But until then he will continue to be hit or miss...literally. Just sayin.
:wsu_posters: :goshocks: :posterwu: :posterwsu:

[1972Shocker]

Not sure this has been discussed anywhere (if so I missed it). When was the last time Shocker fans chanted a players name during a game.

DK received that distinction after his torrid shooting performance at the start of the Tulsa game.

I can't recall ever hearing that done by Shocker fans before, but I do suffer from CRS disease.

I suppose you have to have a name that lends itself to rythmic chanting to start with.

[forevershockerfan]

Thanks for the kind words SHOXMVC.

Here is what I noticed in summer games. DK would penetrate and finish as he left fellow Shockers in the dust. Thus, I know for a fact that he not only can shoot the rock, but he can drive and finish with a slam, a pass, or a reverse layup. The riddle becomes, will he develop that in Prime Time when the lights are bright and the game is for real? Mr. Stutz sure did it once versus Tulsa and that was exciting. DK will continue to draw some solid defenders, but I have not doubt that he can still develop that element in due time. Even so, we can't expect DK to improve every area all at once, because this is a process. He is 'head and shoulders' ahead of last Season in effectiveness in some key areas and has been a bright spot.

Speaking of penetrating, Toure' forced this on a play last game and got in deep trouble. Then at the end of the game, he forced a pass and threw it away at a time that we wanted Tulsa to foul him to seal the deal for us. These split second decisions will get better with time. Rome was not built in a day, a week, or a month. We dodged the bullit and did not lay an egg for the Christmas goose.

One last comment concerning dribble penetration. I wish our Shocks would work on this with some special drills in practice. (Who knows, they may do this daily). So many players in College basketball over penetrate and charge right into foes for a charge rather than pulling up for a short jump shot or a dish off.

Reply # 42

[WstateU]

'Lock Down D' caption contest:

[forevershockerfan]

yikes, stripes, beechnut gum??? WstateU, I remember that commercial much to well back when I was 'knee-high to a grasshoppa.' Their gum was tasty as my jaws locked down some D on it.