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  • At-large discussion

    It's still early, but it's still fun to begin looking at how our end-of-season resume is shaping up. So here is my first, long-winded stab at it, looking also at least season's resume.

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    Here is what last year's resume looked like compared to what we've done this year.

    In the non-con we had two top-50 losses to RPI 18 Pitt and Utah State (40), and one top-100 win against Texas Tech (66). So far I think we can put the UConn and SDSU losses in the top-50 RPI category like Pitt and USU last year. The Virginia win doesn't look as good at the time as Tech last yera, but by the end of the season may be better.

    It's obvious, but the rest of our non-con can't afford another loss. But make no mistake, Tulsa has the capability to beat us (they beat MSU by 12) as does LSU since it is a semi-away game for us and they will have some talent. Our Bracket Buster opponent may not be a high RPI team. The list of away teams aren't impressive. As I recall maybe only a couple (VCU comes to mind) have the potential to be top-50. It's at home and a must-win. The Shocks should be fine if they take care of business.

    In the MVC we had the two infamous losses outside the top-150 in Drake and Evansville. We already know UE has the potential to knock off a good team (Butler) and they beat us and UNI last year. Nothing is given, but I feel like this year's team can avoid those losses. We amassed one top-50 all year, the one over UNI. I have my doubts whether we will get any more top-50 opponents the rest of the year.

    While the RPI isn't particularly useful yet, the inertia is beginning to show and you can identify some of the anamoles in some teams current rankings (like Indiana over #54 Evansville) to arrive at reasonable projection. The opportunities for MVC teams to improve their RPI with good wins are shrinking. Right now there are three MVC teams other than WSU with top-100 RPIs:

    UNI (30)
    UE (54)
    MSU (80)

    UNI's 30 seems flimsy to me with a loss to #173 (road) and no top-100 wins. No real quality win opportunities on the horizon except possibly Indiana (a flimsy 104). With OOC games against RPIs @284, 113, 343, 337 and 104, don't expect them to maintain a top-50 RPI, even if their opponents do reasonably well.

    UE is, well UE. If the eye-test isn't enough to ensure they won't enter the top-50, games against 329, 183 and 317 isn't going to help. And a home game against UNC won't rescue them, unless they pull off another miracle.

    MSU's loss to Tulsa (95) hurts them. They do have a win against #38 (UALR), but we know that RPI won't hold up. Remaining games include @92, 261 and 268. Without a very strong run through the MVC I don't see a top-50 RPI in their future either.

    Other than UE's win over Butler, I don't really see any current MVC win looking as good at the end of the season as it does now, except possibly for WSU over UVa. So I don't see any of our league brethren getting RPI boosts from their opponents.

    Last year I don't think we were as close to the NCAA cutoff as we'd like to imagine. A reversal of the two bad losses would have put us very close, maybe even in, but I doubt it. We really needed a win over Pitt or USU, combined with at least one of those bad losses reversed.

    What I think that means for this year is our margin for error is very, very slim and we need a top-50 win. I only see that coming from a potential Bracket Buster matchup. Now my very subjective RPI projections could be off. I give a 50/50 chance of that being possible, but the next two weeks will tell us a lot.

    The MVC's current RPI rank is 12th. What that means is that if it doesn't change there are a lot of conferences with a lot more teams building at-large resumes - rom an RPI perspective - than the MVC. It's true that RPI isn't a mitigating factor in at-large worthiness, but from the outside looking in, it's the best tool we have.

  • #2
    Why don't you just win the Valley?

    The only valley team I've seen play is WSU, but from looking at some of the stunning losses from fellow MVC members, the Valley is WSU's to lose.
    The Purple Wrath shall cometh.....and that right soon.

    Comment


    • #3
      Sure, we could do that, if you mean win the tournament.

      I had really hoped to fend off such replies with the topic title. But I guess it didn't work on KSU fans.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by RoyalShock
        Sure, we could do that, if you mean win the tournament.

        I had really hoped to fend off such replies with the topic title. But I guess it didn't work on KSU fans.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by RoyalShock
          But I guess it didn't work on KSU fans.
          Does that really surprise you?
          Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
          RIP Guy Always A Shocker
          Carpenter Place - A blessing to many young girls/women
          ICT S.O.S - Great local cause fighting against human trafficking
          Wartick Insurance Agency - Saved me money with more coverage.
          Save Shocker Sports - A rallying cry

          Comment


          • #6
            OK. I'll take a shot at it. If I'd known this thread was forecoming, I would have placed the following here and not in another thread:
            -----
            "We all have been looking for that breakout win, whether it be a UConn on a neutral court, a ranked mid major in SDSU on the road or an upset run in the MVC tournaments past. They haven't happened. However, we did have a nice late run 2 years ago in the Valley that gave hope. Last year, we finished 2nd in the MVC, which by outsiders, might look as over-achieving from the pre-season expectations.

            Now is the time to not under-achieve. I fully expect, as should the coaching staff and players, to win the regular season championship out right and to win the Valley tournament. This is not a goal, but a minimum expectation, particularly given the state of the MVC. Anything else, aside from having several injuries, is a step back and far worse than not beating UConn or SDSU. Such an ending to this season should be considered unacceptable."
            ----
            Short of winning out our non-con, going at least 16-2 and winning the MVC regular season, and losing to the eventual MVC tournament champion, I'm not sure the Shocks would be worthy of an at-large berth. Getting one with anything less than that performance should be considered a gift (don't count on one). It doesn't concern me as much as last year when we were fighting an uphill battle from the beginning.

            What concerns me now is not playing up to our billing, which I believe to not be over estimated given who we have on this team. The brass ring is right in front of us and now is the time to grab it. If we're to be a power among mid major schools, the opportunities to build toward it are limited and not doing so, could delay this progression more than we'd like to think. On the other hand, success will breed success and the reward could be a bountiful future.

            Comment


            • #7
              UNI's loss to #284 Iowa dropped them from 30 to 66. That didn't take long.

              Comment


              • #8
                It's time to start winning. Win out in non-conference, 16-2 in conference (maybe 15-3) with a bracket buster win and two wins in Lou will do it.
                In the fast lane

                Comment


                • #9
                  NEWSFLASH!!!!

                  UNI AND CU SUCK, SO MVC IS ONE-BID LEAGUE!!!!

                  It would have been impossible for Northern Iowa to repeat last season. Which, you know, duh. The Panthers had a dominant Missouri Valley regular season and conference tournament before miraculously downing the No.


                  Yeah, cause some ESPN blogger says so.

                  :roll:

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    As weak as the valley is, it does not matter how many conference games we win if we don't win the tournament.

                    There has been some speculation that we could possibly go 16-2 or better, but, quite frankly, I think it could be disasterous if we did.

                    With a 15-3 or 14-4 conference record, we arrive at St. Louis confident, but not over confident. And from the looks of things, over confidence is likely the only thing that will keep us from our ultimate goal.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 60Shock
                      As weak as the valley is, it does not matter how many conference games we win if we don't win the tournament.

                      There has been some speculation that we could possibly go 16-2 or better, but, quite frankly, I think it could be disasterous if we did.

                      With a 15-3 or 14-4 conference record, we arrive at St. Louis confident, but not over confident. And from the looks of things, over confidence is likely the only thing that will keep us from our ultimate goal.
                      So you're saying that even if we win all our remaining games, except for the MVC tournament final, giving us a 29-3 record, it won't be good enough?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Both losses thus far are 'good' losses. San Diego State's win at Cal last night helped the SOS. UConn is still unbeaten, if I'm not mistaken. If WSU beats LSU, Tulsa and wins the bracket buster, a 15-3 or 16-2 regular season MoValley record will punch a ticket to the dance should the unthinkable occur and WSU lose in St. Louis. A loss to LSU wouldn't be a deal breaker, but might make selection Sunday a little more nerve-wracking.

                        It would be most helpful if those two or three MVC losses were at the better programs, i.e. at Mo State, that school you all seem to hate in Omaha or Illannoy State, not a 'bad' loss like @ Drake, for example.

                        WSU is the only team in the Valley who will earn an at-large berth this year unless someone puts on an unbelievable run the table kind of deal, and that that doesn't seem likely since I don't see any of them winning in Wichita. If the Shocks win the regular season and post-season AQ, they will be the one and only valley entry in the NCAAs. I just hope you don't need it as that will help push up the seed just a bit to win both the RS and PS.
                        At Ballard’s Sporting Goods in Aggieville, this season’s popular purple T-Shirt with the “Welcome to Huggieville” greeting had already been replaced with a newer line known as “Welcome to Traitorville.” “Welcome Back to Loserville” might be a more appropriate selection. - msnbc 4/7/07

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I could be wrong about this, but I don't think I am (and I apologize if the point was made previously): in the last sixteen seasons, every Valley team that has been seeded #1 in the MVC tournament has reached the NCAA Tournament. While the Valley is weak, and while there were years where there was only one team in, this should bode well for the chances of whatever team wins the Valley regular season.

                          So I say, go win the league....who's with me??!!!
                          Wear your seatbelt.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wsu789
                            I could be wrong about this, but I don't think I am (and I apologize if the point was made previously): in the last sixteen seasons, every Valley team that has been seeded #1 in the MVC tournament has reached the NCAA Tournament. While the Valley is weak, and while there were years where there was only one team in, this should bode well for the chances of whatever team wins the Valley regular season.

                            So I say, go win the league....who's with me??!!!
                            I'm with you

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 1979Shocker
                              Originally posted by 60Shock
                              As weak as the valley is, it does not matter how many conference games we win if we don't win the tournament.

                              There has been some speculation that we could possibly go 16-2 or better, but, quite frankly, I think it could be disasterous if we did.

                              With a 15-3 or 14-4 conference record, we arrive at St. Louis confident, but not over confident. And from the looks of things, over confidence is likely the only thing that will keep us from our ultimate goal.
                              So you're saying that even if we win all our remaining games, except for the MVC tournament final, giving us a 29-3 record, it won't be good enough?
                              No, those are your words not mind. I never said anything about us going 29-3 and if I did, I must have drunk a case of something much stronger and lethal than koolaid. I thought I made it clear, but perhaps I did not, that I was referencing conference wins.

                              There is no probability to expect that we are going to come anywhere near winning all of our remaining games. But hypothetically, I guess, if we pulled the miracle of the century and put together a 20+ game win streak, and lost the championship game, then there might be a chance.

                              But, realistically, if we go around 15-3, split our remaining nonconference games against the non-patsies, it is a completely different story. With no significant non-conference wins, with the history of MVC teams getting the short end of the stick when NCAA invitations are dished out, and with virtually every sports writer and coach in the nation aware of the weakness of the MVC, we are a one-and-only one bid conference.

                              Comment

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