Shox -v- Texas Southern In Game Thread

[ShockTalk]

It's just to allow the offense to set itself. It looks pointless but I believe the timing of everything is based off of the handoff.

Well, if that's the case, (and I suspected it was), an opposing coach could certainly disrupted that easily enough with the moment suited him.

I'm just a believer in trying to take full advantage of every possession and not "wasting" (IMO) 1/3 of it setting up. I also feel that while you take time to set up, so does the defense and any lapse in memory the opposition had in getting back quickly or into a good defensive position is lost with this delay. I think it also sets the tone (speed and effort) for the possession. If the set up is slow/sluggish, so may the play on that possession. If one demands quickness with discipline, more quality opportunities will be available each possession. Having quality depth makes sure if a player isn't up to the task, someone else will be. I never like giving my opponent a rest period while on defense...they can rest on their offensive possession.

[HockeyShock]

I'm just a believer in trying to take full advantage of every possession and not "wasting" (IMO) 1/3 of it setting up. I also feel that while you take time to set up, so does the defense and any lapse in memory the opposition had in getting back quickly or into a good defensive position is lost with this delay. I think it also sets the tone (speed and effort) for the possession. If the set up is slow/sluggish, so may the play on that possession. If one demands quickness with discipline, more quality opportunities will be available each possession. Having quality depth makes sure if a player isn't up to the task, someone else will be. I never like giving my opponent a rest period while on defense...they can rest on their offensive possession.

Remember that you're dealing with a team that's still working out issues at point guard and probably haven't refined that 'feel' for one another's movements yet that make truly aggressive press breaks possible. I'm with you in that the way you break a press is to get it upcourt as quickly as possible, but given the relative level of uncertainty of the team, especially with the new players like Ragland and E.O. out there, it's more likely a recipe for a quick turnover than a quick bucket at this point. I suspect we'll get to be more and more aggressive against the press as the season goes on.

:clap: :wsu_posters: :yahoo: :clap:

[ShockTalk]

I'm just a believer in trying to take full advantage of every possession and not "wasting" (IMO) 1/3 of it setting up. I also feel that while you take time to set up, so does the defense and any lapse in memory the opposition had in getting back quickly or into a good defensive position is lost with this delay. I think it also sets the tone (speed and effort) for the possession. If the set up is slow/sluggish, so may the play on that possession. If one demands quickness with discipline, more quality opportunities will be available each possession. Having quality depth makes sure if a player isn't up to the task, someone else will be. I never like giving my opponent a rest period while on defense...they can rest on their offensive possession.

Remember that you're dealing with a team that's still working out issues at point guard and probably haven't refined that 'feel' for one another's movements yet that make truly aggressive press breaks possible. I'm with you in that the way you break a press is to get it upcourt as quickly as possible, but given the relative level of uncertainty of the team, especially with the new players like Ragland and E.O. out there, it's more likely a recipe for a quick turnover than a quick bucket at this point. I suspect we'll get to be more and more aggressive against the press as the season goes on.

:clap: :wsu_posters: :yahoo: :clap:

I'll go so far as to agree with you because of the early time of this season and new players, but we did the same thing much of the time late last year. What was very noticable, and liked by most, was when we didn't walk the ball up after a dead ball and, generally, it put a spark in the team.

[HockeyShock]

I'll go so far as to agree with you because of the early time of this season and new players, but we did the same thing much of the time late last year. What was very noticable, and liked by most, was when we didn't walk the ball up after a dead ball and, generally, it put a spark in the team.

Agreed. If you have the horses, you need to run them at some point. If we're not running teams ragged by the time we get around to the MVC schedule, what's the point of having athletes like Kyles and E.O. around?

:clap: :wsu_posters: :yahoo: :clap:

[Aargh]

I really doubt that any substitution patterns we've seen so far this year will be seen in games where WSU is challenged. The moment I saw the 5-for5 substitution pattern, I figured Marshall was looking at various combinations to see how they might work, instead of looking for the absolute best combination of players on the court at every moment.

I also think that with only one real game and an exhibition, Marshall may have decided that if WSU was less prepared than the opponents, then the advantage WSU could realize was not to give opponents any scouting material. I think Marshall has played everything pretty close to the vest this year to minimize scouting opportunities early in the season.

[1972Shocker]

Five seconds later - KABOOM!! and I thought, "Yeah, this is going to be fun."

Are you sure that wasn't just your Extenze pill working. :shock:

[moshock]

It's just to allow the offense to set itself. It looks pointless but I believe the timing of everything is based off of the handoff.

Well, if that's the case, (and I suspected it was), an opposing coach could certainly disrupted that easily enough with the moment suited him.

I'm just a believer in trying to take full advantage of every possession and not "wasting" (IMO) 1/3 of it setting up. I also feel that while you take time to set up, so does the defense and any lapse in memory the opposition had in getting back quickly or into a good defensive position is lost with this delay. I think it also sets the tone (speed and effort) for the possession. If the set up is slow/sluggish, so may the play on that possession. If one demands quickness with discipline, more quality opportunities will be available each possession. Having quality depth makes sure if a player isn't up to the task, someone else will be. I never like giving my opponent a rest period while on defense...they can rest on their offensive possession.

I'm glad you are not the coach. 3G has a reason for everything he does. I don't pretend to understand all of the "why's" but I do completely trust 3G when it comes to WSU basketball

:clap:

[JaminShock]

Someone explain to me what is gained by the PG throwing the ball to the SG on the right wing as he crosses mid court and then the PG moves towards the SG and takes a very short return pass (or even a handoff)from the SG. Is this designed to allow the offense to set itself like last year when the PG took FOREVER to cross the mid court line which was to allow the offense to get set. I thought the Shox looked really really good when they pushed the ball upcourt. The kids from texas southern as quick as they were in the most part had a hard time getting back in time.

As far as I can recall, this was done last year as well. It's only used in zone offense.

[mvc champs]

As a coach and being someone that has heard Marshall speak at clinics on the zone set, I might be able to provide some insight. The handoff looks pointless and does waste a little time. However, by dribbling over, the zone has to shift slightly when the guard hands off and runs through. You will see later in the year, the guard might slip that and head back to the corner. After the handoff, you saw the post come set a high ball screen at the top of the zone. Without the defensive shift, this screen can't be set at the right angle. The shift allows the wing and corner (guard who ran through) to be open off the penetration. I know that was pretty wordy, but hopefully you can follow my point.

[wufan]

And there you have it folks. Not everything that can be learned is done so in an arm chair and regurgitated on a Monday Morning.

Thanks for the insite!

[SubGod22]

You don't have to worry about it being used when the D is still getting back. It's only used after an inbounds play where the D is back and set. They're not going to stop a fastbreak in order to run it.

[WuDrWu]

Five seconds later - KABOOM!! and I thought, "Yeah, this is going to be fun."

Are you sure that wasn't just your Extenze pill working. :shock:

That stuff really works?????!!!! Now where's that number......

[1972Shocker]

Five seconds later - KABOOM!! and I thought, "Yeah, this is going to be fun."

Are you sure that wasn't just your Extenze pill working. :shock:

That stuff really works?????!!!! Now where's that number......

Jimmy Johnson says it does. But I'm not sure he isn't putting it on his hair.

[ShockTalk]

As a coach and being someone that has heard Marshall speak at clinics on the zone set, I might be able to provide some insight. The handoff looks pointless and does waste a little time. However, by dribbling over, the zone has to shift slightly when the guard hands off and runs through. You will see later in the year, the guard might slip that and head back to the corner. After the handoff, you saw the post come set a high ball screen at the top of the zone. Without the defensive shift, this screen can't be set at the right angle. The shift allows the wing and corner (guard who ran through) to be open off the penetration. I know that was pretty wordy, but hopefully you can follow my point.

Thanks for the insight. I'll try to look at it differently now.

[1972Shocker]

Just for kicks I thought I would compare Rags line from his 1st game as a Shocker to Clevin's 1st Shocker game which was in a starting role against Florida A&M.

Clevin in 25 minutes as a starter:
3-4 FGs, 2-6 3Ptrs, 3-4 FTs, 13 Pts, 3 Rbd, 1 PF, 5 Assists, 5 TOs, 0 Steals

Joe in 21 minutes off the bench:
3-6 FGs, 3-6 3Ptrs, 2-2 FTs, 11 Pts, 2 Rbd, 0 PF, 5 Assists, 1 TOs, 0 Steals

Not particularly predictive of anything and Joe no doubt has a lot of work to do. By the time conference season arrives I think Joe will be ready to contribute some quality minutes at the point.