The Butler Way

[shocky]

Good read about Butler's classic NCAA run and what is going on at the school now. Enjoy my mid-major brothers and sisters.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=oneil_dana&id=5416675

[pogo]

They talk about the identity of Butler. It got me to thinking what is WSU's identity? I know how its perceived by others (and really who cares) but what about those of us on SN?

[19SHOCKER76]

They talk about the identity of Butler. It got me to thinking what is WSU's identity? I know how its perceived by others (and really who cares) but what about those of us on SN?

I really care.

How we are perceived greatly affects our ability to recruit and our marketability to TV audiences outside the Wichita area.

From our standpoint, I would say that we may be on our way to some of the national identity we enjoyed as recently as the early 80's (I know, not too recent). Since we are not there yet, I would say that most outside this area ever give much thought to WSU.

[pogo]

I should have been more clear...we know what ku and kstate think and we have a pretty good idea what the cretin fans think, these are the ones that I don't care about.

[Indy_BB]

http://www.sportingnews.com/college-basketball/article/2010-08-07/butler-basketball-good-it-gets

[Aargh]

They talk about the identity of Butler. It got me to thinking what is WSU's identity? I know how its perceived by others (and really who cares) but what about those of us on SN?

I think WSU's identitiy is still heavily tied to whoever is coaching. Guys that are Sr's in HS now were in the eighth grade when WSU went to the S16. They will remember WSU, maybe a little vaguely, but I suspect college-bound players keep track of colleges from about the middle school level.

Then Turgeon left and WSU's identity with recruits probably went way down. Coaches, not schools, get credit when a school sometimes makes noise in the post-season.

Hiring Marshall gave WSU some identity again. Players had probably noticed him and what he did at Winthrop. Now WSU's identity is tied to Marshall's previous success. If Marshall repeats that success or maybe wins a couple of NCAA games without necessarily making a S16, then WSU can start having an identity based on the school instead of the coach.

I'm less concerned about an identity with media than with recruits. Recruits know enough that they don't think they need to listen to coaches. They certainly know more than anybody in the media. I remember that I really knew just about everything I'd ever need to know by the time I was 18. It's amazing how much of that I've apparently lost as I grew older.

I think WSU is well-positioned to be a school of choice for a lot of boderline BCS recruits. Maybe some well above borderline. I'd argue that WSU is better-positioned than George Mason to sign that level of recruits. GMU had a F4 run, but they didn't change coaches and haven't sniffed that level of success since.

I think recruits and the media can accept some down years after a coaching change, if that school then moves back into national attention. Not changing coaches and dropping completely out of the national picture could be harder to accept.

[Kung Wu]

They talk about the identity of Butler. It got me to thinking what is WSU's identity? I know how its perceived by others (and really who cares) but what about those of us on SN?

It's really a good question. We should go to some random college basketball forums and just ask 'em. It would be very interesting.

[Snapshot9]

If a school isn't in the National news every 4 or 5 years, recruits forget about their past accomplishments, keeping current on the National scene is what sticks in a recruit's memory, i.e., Gonzaga would be a good example.

I would say you have to make the big Dance, and be able to at least win one game every 2-3 years. Marshall has now been here long enough, and we should be able to reap the fruits of his labor this coming season. We need to win the conference, or the tournament, and make it back to the Dance.

Dropping the first game in the NIT last year was a real disappointment, and you saw how quickly we faded into obscurity.

[Dan]

playing games on national TV helps a lot. Most of these kids don't get the chance to play in front of family and friends, so I'm sure being on TV has a lot to do with the decisions.

[Kung Wu]

If a school isn't in the National news every 4 or 5 years, recruits forget about their past accomplishments, keeping current on the National scene is what sticks in a recruit's memory, i.e., Gonzaga would be a good example.

I would say you have to make the big Dance, and be able to at least win one game every 2-3 years. Marshall has now been here long enough, and we should be able to reap the fruits of his labor this coming season. We need to win the conference, or the tournament, and make it back to the Dance.

Dropping the first game in the NIT last year was a real disappointment, and you saw how quickly we faded into obscurity.

Aren't parents way more influential than people on here are giving credit? Any school that had several strong runs in the past decade or two will be in the minds of parents.

Gonzaga is a great example, but opposite of your thinking. The average parent will hold Gonzaga with high regard regardless of what the recruit thinks, and therefore they will have an easier time recruiting over one-and-done programs like George Mason.