Butler and St. Louis

[lostshocker]

Butler won't want to leave the cushy Horizon League where they face no competition and go to the NCAA tourny each year for another one bid league in the MVC. Butler has no reason to leave their conference for another mid-major conference. If anything, they'll jump to a power conference.

the mvc wont be a one bid conference forever. I dont think we'll be getting four again any time soon, but a very possible 2 next year

We will be a 3 bid conference next year....book it

that goes against the conventional mid-major wisdom that the bcs will make sure the mid-majors dont enjoy the type of success they had this year next year. (looking at that sentence, how the hell did i get a b in english 101?)

[SubGod22]

I still don't understand the fascination with St. Louis

[RoyalShock]

I still don't understand the fascination with St. Louis

It may have more to do with Majerus' infatuation with the MVC.

[ShockTalk]

Maybe someday we can add a couple of key Schools to the Valley that would enhance our Conference. It also seems prudent to start approaching the key Mid-Majors that are on the rise and Dancing in March, to see if we can continue to strengthen our schedule and maybe get more games on the tube with possible National coverage?

Catch-22. Strengthen SOS while at the same time having mid-majors beat each other up, worsening the W-L records.

Not really that much of a catch 22. Replace two of the 275+ RPI games with good mid-major teams, win one, lose one, and your SOS goes up as well as your RPI. The added, improved experience the Shox would have gotten may have prevented one or more of our bad conference loses. With that scenario, we would've been dancin' this year.

[mproviz]

I still don't understand the fascination with St. Louis

Arch madness? :D

[RoyalShock]

Let's look at the bottom half - RPI-wise - of three leagues:

First the MVC:

107 - Bradley
108 - Creighton
166 - SIU
181 - Drake
245 - Evansville

Mtn. West (3 bids):

132 - Colorado St.
168 - Utah
192 - TCU
238 - Wyoming
247 - Air Force

A-10 (3 bids):

111 - Duquesne
149 - Geo Wash
155 - St. Bonaventure
171 - UMass
173 - LaSalle
302 - Fordham

If you add Butler (7) and St. Louis (75) to the MVC, you're pulling up the RPI of all teams and giving the opportunity for more quality wins. You don't have to replace anyone. Heck, every league needs a couple of doormats, and just about every league has them. Only the Big12, ACC and Big East don't have more than one RPI bottom-feeder (150+).

Butler doesn't belong in the Horizon anymore because there really aren't any teams there that are going to challenge them anytime soon. At least Gonzaga has St. Mary's. The Bulldogs would be a good fit in the basketball league that is the MVC. St. Louis would just be a quality throw-in to keep an even number.

If WSU isn't going to be able to add football and position itself for a jump to a better conference, then we need to try and make the MVC as good as we can. I know a lot of people want Dayton and Xavier, but they have no reason to jump. They have a pretty good thing going in the A-10.

[shocker3]

Let's look at the bottom half - RPI-wise - of three leagues:

First the MVC:

107 - Bradley
108 - Creighton
166 - SIU
181 - Drake
245 - Evansville

Mtn. West (3 bids):

132 - Colorado St.
168 - Utah
192 - TCU
238 - Wyoming
247 - Air Force

A-10 (3 bids):

111 - Duquesne
149 - Geo Wash
155 - St. Bonaventure
171 - UMass
173 - LaSalle
302 - Fordham

If you add Butler (7) and St. Louis (75) to the MVC, you're pulling up the RPI of all teams and giving the opportunity for more quality wins. You don't have to replace anyone. Heck, every league needs a couple of doormats, and just about every league has them. Only the Big12, ACC and Big East don't have more than one RPI bottom-feeder (150+).

Butler doesn't belong in the Horizon anymore because there really aren't any teams there that are going to challenge them anytime soon. At least Gonzaga has St. Mary's. The Bulldogs would be a good fit in the basketball league that is the MVC. St. Louis would just be a quality throw-in to keep an even number.

If WSU isn't going to be able to add football and position itself for a jump to a better conference, then we need to try and make the MVC as good as we can. I know a lot of people want Dayton and Xavier, but they have no reason to jump. They have a pretty good thing going in the A-10.

Good points, Royal but the Mountain West got 4 bids not 3 (all 4 of their teams not listed above got a bid- they had great separation between their top 4 teams and the bottom 5, helping them to get multiple bids). Their overall conference rpi was almost the same as the Valley, but they had separation and we didn't.

[RoyalShock]

My bad on the bid number.

I guess my summary points are:

1. The idea that adding two quality teams will just mean more "beating up on one another" is a myth. That's part of the purpose of RPI, to gauge the quality of wins and losses. Adding two quality RPI teams (SLU is borderline but better than MVC average in a year with a very young team) isn't going to hurt.

2. We don't need to replace two teams to keep a magic number of 10. We may like the balanced schedule, but if the price is that we struggle to get multiple bids and national respect, it's not worth it. At least, that's my opinion.

3. The MVC needs to get stronger and there is some strength in numbers. Without FBS football, the conference (and it's member schools) needs as much strength as it can get should there continue to be conference realignment.

[ShockTalk]

My bad on the bid number.

I guess my summary points are:

1. The idea that adding two quality teams will just mean more "beating up on one another" is a myth. That's part of the purpose of RPI, to gauge the quality of wins and losses. Adding two quality RPI teams (SLU is borderline but better than MVC average in a year with a very young team) isn't going to hurt.

2. We don't need to replace two teams to keep a magic number of 10. We may like the balanced schedule, but if the price is that we struggle to get multiple bids and national respect, it's not worth it. At least, that's my opinion.

3. The MVC needs to get stronger and there is some strength in numbers. Without FBS football, the conference (and it's member schools) needs as much strength as it can get should there continue to be conference realignment.

:good: As long as we get Butler and not just St. Louis.

Possible MVC divisions:

East - Butler, Ill St, SIU, Bradley, In St, and Evansville.

West - WSU, MSU, Creighton, UNI, St. Louis, and Drake.