Midmajors Deserve Better--New York Times article

[The Mad Hatter]

Some of you are sounding no different than the BCS fans that you so hate. Let's make it more difficult to become a division I school. Let's exclude the bottom 20 conferences from automatic inclusion in the tournament. Anything to make it easier to get WSU into the NCAA tournament. It takes years to develop a Division I program. Most Division II programs transitioning to Division I have been successful at that level and in time believe they can compete at a higher level. You would deny them that opportunity out of fear that it would jeapordize our own position.

Maybe we should just allow the BCS conferences to compete in the tournament and let everybody else compete for an NIT bid.

I agree. The problem is not the little guys getting their shot (and often making the tournament great by beating a #2 or #3 seed in the first round). The problem is mediocre, middle of the pack large conference teams getting in. In my mind, if you were a champion of your league, you deserve to be there. If you lose once you are there, so be it, but you deserve a shot.

[shockerfan]

Good points ABC and shockerfan..

However shockerfan, one can argue that your proposed action is similar to the idea of the BCS schools wanting to snub the middies with a I-A - I-AA idea, although on a much lower level.

Who are we to say that a MEAC school or an Atlantic Sun school doesn't deserve a chance?

I do agree, at some point, there has to be stricter requirements to become Division I. Eventually, there will be no more Division II at this pace.

Yeah I thought about that. I just think there needs to be SOME sort of seperation. Where that line needs to be drawn can be debated forever. I just think something needs to be done as Div 1 the way it is right now is way to big in terms of basketball. You can't please everyone when you change, but change definately needs to happen. I for one, just don't think expanding the tourney field is the right kind of change.

[shockerfan]

Some of you are sounding no different than the BCS fans that you so hate. Let's make it more difficult to become a division I school. Let's exclude the bottom 20 conferences from automatic inclusion in the tournament. Anything to make it easier to get WSU into the NCAA tournament. It takes years to develop a Division I program. Most Division II programs transitioning to Division I have been successful at that level and in time believe they can compete at a higher level. You would deny them that opportunity out of fear that it would jeapordize our own position.

Maybe we should just allow the BCS conferences to compete in the tournament and let everybody else compete for an NIT bid.

Well perhaps there needs to be a Div 1AA then. Perhaps the step from Div II to Div I is too big in terms of competing. Since it takes YEARS to develop a Div I program. I don't think there is a right answer. But something definately needs to happen.

[rjl]

Just a question, not meant to make a point, but when was the last time a MAC, America East, Big West, MEAC, Colonial, Southern, Atlantic Sun, Conference USA, Southland, Horizon, NEC, Summit, Ohio Valley, Sun Belt, Big Sky, MVC, WCC, Patriot, MAAC, or an independent got a one seed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament

St Joes

Memphis in '08.

[shocker3]

My concern is not that mid-majors won't get more invites if the field expands (I think they will), but that they play-in round will become an elimination round for mid-majors, playing against each other for the right to play the bigger conference teams.

Going to 96 teams means that the top 32 seeds will have a huge advantage over the rest of the field, and they way mid-majors will be discriminated against will not be inclusion in the tournament, but inclusion in the first-round bye group.

You are making an assumption that playing in the first round (as opposed to getting a bye) is a bad thing. It isn't necessarily.

Back when they had 48 teams and the top 16 teams had a bye, there were complaints that the teams with the bye were at a disadvantage because they sat for 2 more days while the lower seeds they were playing were coming off a hot victory. That was one of the arguments for expanding to 64.

Also the non-BCS teams need the money more. So getting an extra check for playing an extra round will benefit non-BCS teams.

So playing in the play-in round isn't necessarily bad (WSU had to play in the play-in round in 1981 as a sixth seed, ask the third seed Iowa how that turned out for them).

:wsu_posters: :wsu_posters:

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

Just a question, not meant to make a point, but when was the last time a MAC, America East, Big West, MEAC, Colonial, Southern, Atlantic Sun, Conference USA, Southland, Horizon, NEC, Summit, Ohio Valley, Sun Belt, Big Sky, MVC, WCC, Patriot, MAAC, or an independent got a one seed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament

St Joes

Memphis in '08.

didnt they have to give up those wins? So in reality it wouldnt count? But to be honest I forgot about them in 08.

Which leads me to something thats OT. The NCAA really made Michigan get rid of the Fab 5's banners and pretend they dont exist. But yet they are quick as hell to put advertise them as part of a NCAA greatest tourney moments DVD.

Now I might not be a smart man but what kind of ratard do they think I am?

[ShockTalk]

I've said before that expansion will not help the non-BCS schools unless a number of restrictive rules for participation are included. Adding 32 teams will mean that an additional 12-18 BCS teams will also get in. That will actually increase the percentage of BCS teams from what it is now.

[ShockerFever]

That will actually increase the percentage of BCS teams from what it is now.

Which is exactly why the NCAA appears to be in favor of it.

[19SHOCKER76]

96 teams is just dumb. I don't care if it helps the BCS teams or the middies. It's stupid.

You're gonna get 31 NIT caliber teams that don't belong. The NCAA Tournament is supposed to be hard to get in to. That is the whole friggen point.

Isn't the real point that the NCAA makes a boat load on the tourney, and 96 teams makes the boat bigger?

[ShockerFever]

96 teams is just dumb. I don't care if it helps the BCS teams or the middies. It's stupid.

You're gonna get 31 NIT caliber teams that don't belong. The NCAA Tournament is supposed to be hard to get in to. That is the whole friggen point.

Isn't the real point that the NCAA makes a boat load on the tourney, and 96 teams makes the boat bigger?

True.

[ShockTalk]

What is it that qualifies a school for DI basketball status? Some say "your being just like the BCSrs" by some of us wanting to reduce the number of conferences. Well, let's just invite all four year colleges in!! You have to have some sort of reasonable guidelines. By the way, increasing to 96 teams will eliminate the lower conferences' "champions" day in the sun as they will no longer get that shot at a #1 or #2 seed.

[1979Shocker]

I've said before that expansion will not help the non-BCS schools unless a number of restrictive rules for participation are included. Adding 32 teams will mean that an additional 12-18 BCS teams will also get in. That will actually increase the percentage of BCS teams from what it is now.

HCGM is in favor of expanding to 96 teams.

[ShockTalk]

I've said before that expansion will not help the non-BCS schools unless a number of restrictive rules for participation are included. Adding 32 teams will mean that an additional 12-18 BCS teams will also get in. That will actually increase the percentage of BCS teams from what it is now.

HCGM is in favor of expanding to 96 teams.

Did you always agree with your father and mother as well?

[1979Shocker]

I've said before that expansion will not help the non-BCS schools unless a number of restrictive rules for participation are included. Adding 32 teams will mean that an additional 12-18 BCS teams will also get in. That will actually increase the percentage of BCS teams from what it is now.

HCGM is in favor of expanding to 96 teams.

Did you always agree with your father and mother as well?

You must have me mixed up with someone else. I didn't say one way or the other whether I agreed with HGCM on expanding to 96 teams.

[SHOXAAC]

With all the frustration surrounding why the non-power conferences get unbalanced love, I became curious about the selection process, including the selection committee.

The committee consists of 10 members, which includes a chairman. The committee members serve 5-year terms, with between 1 & 3 old members rotating out and the same number rotating in every year. The committee maintains geographical balance, with no fewer than two members representing the East, Midwest, South and West regions at any one time.

My expectation was the committee would be dominated by the power conferences. Then I could blame the entire process on this "Goliath" mentality. To my surprise the breakdown looks like this:

Daniel Guerrero (chairman) - AD, UCLA; Eugene Smith - AD, Ohio State; Laing Kennedy - AD, Kent State; Stanley Morrison - AD, UC-Riverside; Jeffrey Hathaway - AD, UConn; Lynn Hickey - AD UT-San Antonio; Mike Bobinski - AD, Xavier; Dan Beebe - Commissioner, Big 12; Doug Fullerton - Commissioner, Big Sky; Ron Wellman - AD, Wake Forest

It is an even split, 5-5, David's vs. Goliath's. We know the Goliath's politic hard for the their middle of the pack, .500 conference record teams, over a second place, 25-win team from a conference we will call the MVC. I get that. But where is the balance of voice fighting for David.

I think the committee, from a quick & initial view, has done the right thing placing good conference balance in the membership. Come on David's...although 8 mid-major at large berths this year are the highest in several years, your voice apparently needs to resonate much stronger. Not that I expect the David's to only advocate the non-power conference teams. I want them to be fair and equitable and get the most deserving 65 teams possible...but at the same time they must fight for their own when the fight is right.

Oh well, enough rant...time to take my meds and go to bed. The hall monitor at the care home is coming down the hall. Good night!!!