Originally posted by MTXE
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Don't read if you are in a good mood about tonight's game
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Originally posted by MTXEOriginally posted by H8KUOriginally posted by MTXEI created a separate thread so those that don't appreciate my sometimes negative spin on things could avoid my thoughts.
Originally posted by MTXEWhen Gene Smithson talked to the team he talked about how he wanted his teams to make the opposition fear they ever got on the bus to come visiti Levitt Arena. He literally wanted to scare the heck out of them. I want the Shockers to have this same killer instinct. I want the Shockers to not only want to win, but to want to humiliate and even frighten the opposition. The Shockers should have been thinking feast tonight, instead they were thinking it was an opportunity to coast. Where is the competitive drive? Where is the thirst for "blood"?
I'm so sick of teams getting comfortable in our building I could vomit for days and I still wouldn't get it all out. Teams should never be comfortable in our building.
We won the game. Whether it was due to late-game manipulations by management or simply a group of players deciding that they didn't want to lose, doesn't cover up the fact that everybody in the world (including all the odds-makers) had us winning handily in a game that was botched up.
I have a choice to blame 18-22 year old young men who are playing for free (in their minds) or a coaching staff making over a million dollars a year. I choose management. I've seen this team play hard. I am fairly certain that about 90% of the nightmare I experienced tonight was due to what was or wasn't in the minds of those young men. Maybe it's their parent's fault? I think not. :)
"I'm not sure if comparing Gene Smithson to Gregg Marshall is fair"
True, Gene Smithson played against much stiffer competition.
There is another choice. Don't lay blame on anyone and just accept the fact that these are 18-22 year olds that are prone to these performances once in a while. If games like this are a consistent occurrence, I would agree that there should be a concern. However, over the years there are several case studies of teams much better than this one who have had performances like this.
"True, Gene Smithson played against much stiffer competition"
I'm not sure how Tulsa and Creighton that year would compare to this year's UNI and Texas Tech teams. However, I wouldn't consider that New Mexico State team as "stiffer competition." Indiana State is now 13-10, and still has an RPI of 82. That NMSU team had a whopping 17 losses. I guess the "killer instinct" took at least one night off.
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Ill say this much....there was a point in the game after about 28 or 29 minutes had been played where I openly questioned how in the world this team could play like this and was it the kids or an inability to get them refocused for the game...
maybe a little of both....and maybe we thought it was going to be easy as well.....maybe the players friends told them the same.....human nature...regardless though **** happens and we finally fought through and will be the better for it. I honestly wouldnt want anybody else coaching our team. Hes ours and Ill stick by him...no time outs or all his time outs in his pocket. You have to learn how to say Next..put the good bad or indiferent behind you and just say Next.
Next1/16/2010 on the "Screw at the Q" HCGM... " Ive never seen a foul parade like that...If you would of let me know it was going to be a foul parade I would of brought a different team" .... "dont talk to me about fouls....Ive got to go back and look at some tape... I have some thoughts but I need to look at the tape and then I will have something very strong to say"
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Seems Coach Self up in Larryville is aware that 18-22 olds pull this kind of stuff even as part of a currently #1 team. Today's Eagle article on their "stellar" win against the mighty Corn starts with how Self writes three numbers on the board at the beginning of each season. First, the total number of games, then how many times they will play OK and how many they will play terrible. The key is when you're playing OK or awful, you have to find a way to win.
I've worked with "kids" as old as undergraduate age enough to know you can tell and threaten them all you want about not having mental and effort letdowns. The problem is each player has to turn that light on inside individually, hopefully at the start of each game, not when the "oh #@$!" moment hits in the second half. The Shocks are a good to very good team this year, but NOT a championship team yet, because this is the one thing that eludes them. But these are the fires in which you hopefully learn these lessons. Hopefully this is remembered for next year, but if they figure it out even somewhat over these last few regular season games, we just might have some fun over the next six weeks or so.Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss
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It is hard to keep the "big picture" in perspective after the wild and crazy roller coaster game last night. However, here are some facts and observations from an eternal optimist to consider.
1. We are undefeated at home this Season thus far. I will take an ugly win because this beats losing to a team that was missing 2 key players. Can you imagine the ShockerNet melt-down if we would have lost this game? Yikes!!!!!!!
2. With each game, we need to learn from it and grow into an improved team. Did and will we do that? Time will tell. However, we did learn that this team could dig deep down and come together and make a huge come-back after being behind in double-digits and still find a way to win. We sure could have just gave up and crumbled under the pressure and lost.
3. Our beloved Shocks were picked around 5th preseason by many prognosticators. We may just end up in 2nd place. Can u dig it? Groovy!!!!!!!
4. FSF is still speaking in the 3rd person and predicted us to win 21 games this Season. Today's paper has us at 20-5. I would rather devour stale nachos and snarf down vapid fried chicken than underestimate these Shocks. This is indeed a rare occurence by yours truly, but sort of puts this Season in a brighter perspective.
5. Many Shocker fans believe next Season will be our best one in a long while. However, we still have Hannah as our quarterback this Season so must we wait? What a solid point guard he has been and we are a much better team when he is in the game. Next Season will take care of itself.
6. The Shocks may have to win most of our remaining games and at least make it to the finals at "The Lou" to 'Dance with the 'March Stars.' We do NOT want to leave our Season destiny in the hands of timekeepers with slow reflexes or TV sports commentators who deem the Valley as chopped liver. Now is the time to start peaking, growing, and finding a way to keep winning.
7. FSF likes 7's so here goes. When the dust is settled and the black and gold curtains go down for the last time this Season, where will the Shox end up? Stay tuned--but so far---so good!!!!!!!Shocker basketball will forever be my favorite team in all of sports.
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Re: Don't read if you are in a good mood about tonight's gam
Originally posted by MTXEThe coaching staff did a terrible job getting these young men prepared for a game that we simply couldn't afford to lose. When HCGM was asked how much time he spent in the week leading up to the game preparing the team to not take ISU lightly, he avoided answering at first and instead chose to talk about how they were still suffering a hangover from the Northern Iowa game. Then he started laughing about a not-so-funny analogy involving bears and sycamore trees.
I'm not sure how you did it, MTXE, but your shrewd powers of post-game newsconference observation figured it out.
Rather than plan for the ISU game, the coaching staff had been preparing for their annual bake sale from the moment they got off the plane early Thursday morning. Marshall was up until 8 in the morning baking his famous cupcakes! Jans was working his magic with his grandma's secret bundt cake recipe. Gross was making some of his "special" brownies. And Okon brought in a special African flair with his elephant, lion, and zebra shaped sugarcookies.
By the time Saturday morning rolled around, the coaches were just plum too tuckered out from all the baking they had done to even consider what they were going to do against Indiana State.
I still don't know how you did it, MTXE, but YOU DID IT, and all from a few seconds of post-game video footage. Nothing short of amazing.
You win best Shockernetter ever award!!!The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
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Re: Don't read if you are in a good mood about tonight's gam
Originally posted by MTXEI'm happy we are 20-5, but tonight's performance was all on the coaching staff. Durley was asked about finally getting it started in the paint: he said the coaching staff didn't specifically focus on getting it in the post in the first half. Why? Why wouldn't you spend all your energy getting your players to feed the postmen to attempt to draw fouls on a critically thin line? Heck, even if you miss every shot you take, a foul is just like a basket when you are playing a team of 8 players.
On to Evansville. :(
Still one of the most interesting train wrecks of all time.
ISU was, as they are today, a 2nd rate program. They had no control over their bench and all the bench players were tossed for leaving the bench plus one of the players that threw the first punch.
Coach Fogler, in a typical Coach Fogler moment, decided that the most efficient way to win would be to pound the ball inside and force ISU to foul. The would foul out more quickly, eventually leading to a forfeit or a serious beatdown as it became 5 against 3 or 5 against 2.
ISU went to a 2-2 zone and played out of their minds. They hit a bunch of 3 and actually made a game of it for a little while. I don't remember exactly but they might have cut it to 5 at one point.
Eddie admitted later that he seriously bungled that and that he should have just run them into the ground with a full court press and liberal substitutions.
Maybe pounding it inside isn't the only nor is it always the best way to win against a team that is short handed.
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Somebody who's been posting in this thread needs the ability to both observe and understand a basketball game.
Indiana State's zone was set up to deny a pass to the inside. They were sagging way off the shooters and back into the passing lanes to prevent entry passes to the inside players. WSU's perimeter players were constantly looking inside, but throwing a pass inside through most of the game would have resulted in a turnover and not a foul on an already depleted team.
Give ISU some credit. They put all their eggs in one basket: Force WSU to hit 3's. They did an excellent job with their game plan and WSU couldn't hit enough 3's to force them out of it. The early stages of the game were as much a result of ISU's superior play as they were a result of WSU's inferior play. That and ISU hitting 70% of their shots.
Eventually ISU wore down and the defender's weren't as quick at getting into the passing lanes and into position to intercept passes to the inside. When that happened, WSU took advantage and started throwing passes inside.
What a concept - don't throw passes to the interior when they're going to be intercepted. Throw passes to the interior when they're not going to be intercepted. WSU must have some kind of double super genius on the sidelines to convince the players to pass the ball to the guys wearing the same color shirts as they're wearing. That's some outstanding coaching right there.
MYXE, your game plan would have resulted in about 20 turnovers in the first 24 possessions and WSU would not have had to come back from a 17-point deficit. It would have been 30+.The future's so bright - I gotta wear shades.
We like to cut down nets and get sized for championship rings.
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I haven't read the whole topic, only scanned over some of the posts, but I have a feeling I'm about to get lumped in with MTXE.
Anyway, last night as I watched us attempt to deal with the zone I had two observations: 1. The offensive system on the floor looked completely inept. It looked like the same offense we ran in middle school against a 1-3-1 zone. 2. Our players didn't seem to have any instinct on how to find open areas in the zone, either our post players or shooters.
You can't just run a guy baseline and have your post jog around the lane. You need to either find open areas on the perimeter and shoot them out of it or get the ball to the FT line, force the defense to collapse, then kick it out. I didn't see any of that. Whether that was due to coaching or the players, well, that's well above my pay grade.
What finally got things rolling was when ISU switched to man-to-man for a few positions, we got some scores and stop and suddenly the tide turned. McKenna probably thought a switch would put us back on our heels but we are good enough that it backfired.
In my opinion, we won because ISU went away from what was working and we took full advantage of it. So there is credit and blame to go all around, I think.
I'm just glad we got out of there with a win. I told my wife on the way there that I was concerned ISU would rally around their misfortunes and play with a purpose. Kudos to them for that.
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Re: Don't read if you are in a good mood about tonight's gam
Originally posted by rjlOriginally posted by MTXEThe coaching staff did a terrible job getting these young men prepared for a game that we simply couldn't afford to lose. When HCGM was asked how much time he spent in the week leading up to the game preparing the team to not take ISU lightly, he avoided answering at first and instead chose to talk about how they were still suffering a hangover from the Northern Iowa game. Then he started laughing about a not-so-funny analogy involving bears and sycamore trees.
I'm not sure how you did it, MTXE, but your shrewd powers of post-game newsconference observation figured it out.
Rather than plan for the ISU game, the coaching staff had been preparing for their annual bake sale from the moment they got off the plane early Thursday morning. Marshall was up until 8 in the morning baking his famous cupcakes! Jans was working his magic with his grandma's secret bundt cake recipe. Gross was making some of his "special" brownies. And Okon brought in a special African flair with his elephant, lion, and zebra shaped sugarcookies.
By the time Saturday morning rolled around, the coaches were just plum too tuckered out from all the baking they had done to even consider what they were going to do against Indiana State.
I still don't know how you did it, MTXE, but YOU DID IT, and all from a few seconds of post-game video footage. Nothing short of amazing.
You win best Shockernetter ever award!!!
SFL is back!
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MTXE, you are sooooo right! Coaching staff gets a D this year. UNI pounded us in the lane and we refuse to go zone. It is totaly the coaches fault by not getting the team up for games. We lose to a sorry sCUm team, and Drake? cmon!!! It seems like they cant adjust to the game. Players look like they are too cool to play sometimes. I see other teams push as hard as they can and we are just walking around. By him starting Ellis tells enough about his coaching. Chalk the INDYST win for the fans because without the fans we would have lost by 20! on to evan" If you build it they will come ", Koch Arena
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