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Gottlieb's ESPNU podcast debate vs. Lunardi

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  • #16
    That's a great read, fastbow. Thanks for posting it.

    I found the following section most interesting:

    One thing that really struck me was up in the top left corner, the first thing a committee member sees when scanning one of these. There's average RPI win and average RPI loss. That's not something that you can find on any website, is it? (Don't worry, we're on it this weekend.) SJU's average win of 170 makes its profile look a whole lot less impressive.

    Wins and losses are broken down by opponent's RPI: 1-50, 51-100, etc. The lower two blocks are a graphical breakdown of all games by opponent RPI (red equals a loss, orange indicates an away game, green is home), and teal shading indicates nonconference. Games within a team's last 12 played are repeated at the bottom. Did I mention that opponent RPI is important?

    2:13 PM -- General discussion ensued, everybody had a lot of questions. A few were about the emphasis on L12, or RPI, or strength of schedule. Slive said that it's a personal preference from one committee member to the next. Given that each of the 10 is human, each has spent individual basketball lifetimes building a different set of personal preferences as to what's important. This process a collective and subjective decision, he said, based on consensus. "No single category qualifies or disqualifies a team."
    Some conclusions:

    1. A team's RPI is not important to their selection chances.

    2. It will always be unclear just how important opponent RPI is from year-to-year, since we can't determine each committee member's preferences. But we can probably be assured it carries some weight due to the next conclusion.

    3. That they include average RPI win and average RPI loss, and it's at the top, tells me they are at least somewhat important and helpful to the committee, and a number we ought to be looking at as the season progresses.

    4. Given #3, having a strong OOC is vitally important for conferences like the MVC, whether or not you win or lose those games. It also underscores why we should pull for our conference brethren, because their RPI will factor into our RPI averages.


    If I'm not mistaken, a majority of the committee is usually made up of representatives from the non-power conferences. I've never bought the argument there was any fix in. The drop in non-power conference at-large selections is likely just a result of changing scheduling trends and weaker performances overall by non-power teams in the OOC.

    For several years in the mid 2000s it seemed like the OOC provided a lot of top "mid" teams beating the good-to-great power teams, combined with the mid-to-lower "mids" beating the mediocre power teams. This helped the top mids build impressive at-large resumes. I don't think that's been the case the past 2-3 seasons.

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    • #17
      A little OT, but still BCS related:

      I'm getting a little tired of all the national sportswriters suggesting that the Pac-10 will be a one bid league this year. Let's just face the facts. Although the Pac-10 is very mediocre this year (if not bad), the committee will never send only one team from a BCS conference. It will never happen. Even if there aren't more than one deserving team, you just know that another will be selected by the committee. Heck, they might even end up with 4 teams (Arizona St., Washington, Cal, and another TBD).

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      • #18
        Originally posted by vbird53
        A little OT, but still BCS related:

        I'm getting a little tired of all the national sportswriters suggesting that the Pac-10 will be a one bid league this year. Let's just face the facts. Although the Pac-10 is very mediocre this year (if not bad), the committee will never send only one team from a BCS conference. It will never happen. Even if there aren't more than one deserving team, you just know that another will be selected by the committee. Heck, they might even end up with 4 teams (Arizona St., Washington, Cal, and another TBD).
        The fact that USC is doing well in conference, but is not eligible for post season play hurts the odds of 4, in my opinion, but otherwise I agree with your assessment. I hope you are wrong, but I doubt it.
        "Cotton scared me - I left him alone." - B4MSU (Bear Nation poster) in reference to heckling players

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        • #19
          Originally posted by vbird53
          A little OT, but still BCS related:

          I'm getting a little tired of all the national sportswriters suggesting that the Pac-10 will be a one bid league this year. Let's just face the facts. Although the Pac-10 is very mediocre this year (if not bad), the committee will never send only one team from a BCS conference. It will never happen. Even if there aren't more than one deserving team, you just know that another will be selected by the committee. Heck, they might even end up with 4 teams (Arizona St., Washington, Cal, and another TBD).
          That TBD would be UCLA. Did you see that their win last night over Washington got them the lead story on the NCAA BB page? That had as much real importance as Bradley beating Southern Illinois (seriously, look at the records).

          That said, I think they'll only get two. Two is still too much, but within the realm of plausible deniability. Three would be a more blatant favoritism than even The Committee could get away with, I think.

          :clap: :wsu_posters: :yahoo: :clap:

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          • #20
            Originally posted by HockeyShock
            Originally posted by vbird53
            A little OT, but still BCS related:

            I'm getting a little tired of all the national sportswriters suggesting that the Pac-10 will be a one bid league this year. Let's just face the facts. Although the Pac-10 is very mediocre this year (if not bad), the committee will never send only one team from a BCS conference. It will never happen. Even if there aren't more than one deserving team, you just know that another will be selected by the committee. Heck, they might even end up with 4 teams (Arizona St., Washington, Cal, and another TBD).
            That TBD would be UCLA. Did you see that their win last night over Washington got them the lead story on the NCAA BB page? That had as much real importance as Bradley beating Southern Illinois (seriously, look at the records).

            That said, I think they'll only get two. Two is still too much, but within the realm of plausible deniability. Three would be a more blatant favoritism than even The Committee could get away with, I think.

            :clap: :wsu_posters: :yahoo: :clap:
            We'll see.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by RoyalShock
              That's a great read, fastbow. Thanks for posting it.
              You're welcome. But yeah, I don't think the committee is all that evil. They aren't totally BCS biased, the conference rep steps out for his own conference, and I like the concept of voting and comparing teams to one another.

              If anything, it seems to me the most important things to getting at-larges are high averages, numbers that pop, and enough name recognition to get into the conversation and through the first few rounds of voting...
              Deep in the heart of couldn't give a crap about college basketball-land and I miss the SHOX.
              Students > Alumni
              If you EVER want to open your damn mouths about Selection Sunday, READ THIS FIRST: http://www.midmajority.com/p/1296
              The ONLY document that means ANYTHING: http://www.bbstate.com/schools/WICH/sheet

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              • #22
                Pac-10 is garbage.
                Deuces Valley.
                ... No really, deuces.
                ________________
                "Enjoy the ride."

                - a smart man

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                • #23
                  Fran Frashilla chat today...tried like heck to get a generic MVC question in...the below question was asked though and answered

                  Curt (Cedar Falls, IA)


                  How high in the rankings do you think Northern Iowa can get this year?

                  Fran Fraschilla (4:20 PM)


                  Curt, I've had them in the mid teens the last couple of weeks and won't penalize them for losing at Wichita St. I think they can hover between 10 and 15. More importantly will be their NCAA seed because this team can make it to the Sweet 16.

                  Then based upon those comments I tried to get him to answer whether we were a 1 bid or more bid conference...but to no avail
                  1/16/2010 on the "Screw at the Q" HCGM... " Ive never seen a foul parade like that...If you would of let me know it was going to be a foul parade I would of brought a different team" .... "dont talk to me about fouls....Ive got to go back and look at some tape... I have some thoughts but I need to look at the tape and then I will have something very strong to say"

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