Personal Fouls and Turnovers - How Much Is Too Much?

[AndShock]

This may have been discussed on another thread but I heard that two of the three refs from our last game with CU officiated the Texas / KSU game last night.

By many accounts one of the roughest college games in recent memory yet was never a free throw parade. Can anyone tell me why this is?

Why does this game receive different treatment than our last game?

Perception is wonderful, isn't it?

Texas 27 PF; KjSU 22 = Total 49 with 54 FTA
WSU 25 PF; sCUm 16 = Total 41 with 48 FTA.

Some of UT's 27 were last ditch effort, so subtract 3 PF and 6 FTA, guess what? Was there different treatment? Does WSU play rough, but not sCUm?

Looks like the away teams play rough.

[Ricardo del Rio]

I wonder, if the preference for dribble penetration by coaches, has caused an increase in foul frequency.

I may be incorrect, but it seems the tactic became more common in the last five years.

For Coach Calipari, it is the backbone of his offense.

[im4wsu]

I wonder, if the preference for dribble penetration by coaches, has caused an increase in foul frequency.

I may be incorrect, but it seems the tactic became more common in the last five years.

For Coach Calipari, it is the backbone of his offense.

RDR, at least that and also probably "the flop". Did you see #11 flop on his 3-pt attempt in the 2nd half? There were several, both teams.

[ShockTalk]

Here are the foul stats for WSU thus far this season.



Something seems just a bit strange here. In MVC games only, WSU is called for more fouls (20.1 vs 19.8) and the opponents are charged with fewer fouls (16.1 to 18.3). That's a 2.5 foul differential. Does this mean that all other teams adjust to the MVC officials better than WSU?

But notice there are fewer fouls called in the MVC games. I think this is presumed--the MVC "let's em play", except for WSU perhaps?

Intersting note from the UNI game:

Prior to last night, UNI has averaged 15.5 fouls this season, but had 21 against the Shox. Even subtracting 3 for late game fouling, still leaves them over their average.

WSU, on the other hand, had averaged about 20 fouls per game, but only had 18 last night at home.

These numbers are more in line with what one would think would be "normal" for two compariable teams with the home team winning.

What was different about this game? Two of the referees do very few MVC games and the third is considered a good Valley ref. Make your own conclusions.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Here are the foul stats for WSU thus far this season.



Something seems just a bit strange here. In MVC games only, WSU is called for more fouls (20.1 vs 19.8) and the opponents are charged with fewer fouls (16.1 to 18.3). That's a 2.5 foul differential. Does this mean that all other teams adjust to the MVC officials better than WSU?

But notice there are fewer fouls called in the MVC games. I think this is presumed--the MVC "let's em play", except for WSU perhaps?

Intersting note from the UNI game:

Prior to last night, UNI has averaged 15.5 fouls this season, but had 21 against the Shox. Even subtracting 3 for late game fouling, still leaves them over their average.

WSU, on the other hand, had averaged about 20 fouls per game, but only had 18 last night at home.

These numbers are more in line with what one would think would be "normal" for two compariable teams with the home team winning.

What was different about this game? Two of the referees do very few MVC games and the third is considered a good Valley ref. Make your own conclusions.

One of the referees was blind in one eye and could not see out of the other. There was a foul called on Stutz in the second half, which was so wrong. It was the call, whereby the offensive player just barreled straight ahead into Stutz. Stutz stood tall, not leaning, with hands straight up.

[ShockTalk]

Here are the foul stats for WSU thus far this season.



Something seems just a bit strange here. In MVC games only, WSU is called for more fouls (20.1 vs 19.8) and the opponents are charged with fewer fouls (16.1 to 18.3). That's a 2.5 foul differential. Does this mean that all other teams adjust to the MVC officials better than WSU?

But notice there are fewer fouls called in the MVC games. I think this is presumed--the MVC "let's em play", except for WSU perhaps?

Intersting note from the UNI game:

Prior to last night, UNI has averaged 15.5 fouls this season, but had 21 against the Shox. Even subtracting 3 for late game fouling, still leaves them over their average.

WSU, on the other hand, had averaged about 20 fouls per game, but only had 18 last night at home.

These numbers are more in line with what one would think would be "normal" for two compariable teams with the home team winning.

What was different about this game? Two of the referees do very few MVC games and the third is considered a good Valley ref. Make your own conclusions.

One of the referees was blind in one eye and could not see out of the other. There was a foul called on Stutz in the second half, which was so wrong. It was the call, whereby the offensive player just barreled straight ahead into Stutz. Stutz stood tall, not leaning, with hands straight up.

When was the last time you watch a Shox game and didn't disagree (to be polite) with at least 2-3 calls.

I could pick apart our play the last 4 minutes of the 1st half and the first 4 minutes of the second, question the wisdom of throwing up several air-balls, and so forth, but I still think this was a good, if not great game, for the Shockers.

A few missed, or bad calls, doesn't mean the overall game wasn't called well or fairly.

[The Mad Hatter]

I am one who has no problem criticizing the officials, but, while there were some questionable calls last night as there will be any night, top to bottom it was a solidly officiated game.

If we could have that kind of officiating every night, I would be more than pleased.

[WuDrWu]

One of the referees was blind in one eye and could not see out of the other. There was a foul called on Stutz in the second half, which was so wrong. It was the call, whereby the offensive player just barreled straight ahead into Stutz. Stutz stood tall, not leaning, with hands straight up.

Shortly after that call, the same official helped Garrett find his contact.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Personal fouls - 27

Turnovers - 19

How many is too many?

The Shockers just cannot play defense without fouling.

Look at the CU and Drake box score and do a mental gymnastic and adjust the score for playing just a touch smarter in the foul and turnover department.

[melcong4]

Personal fouls - 27

Turnovers - 19

How many is too many?

The Shockers just cannot play defense without fouling.

Look at the CU and Drake box score and do a mental gymnastic and adjust the score for playing just a touch smarter in the foul and turnover department.

They played great defense against UNI without fouling too much. So it can be done....it's a matter of effort and determiniation in my opinion. How bad do you want it...

[Ricardo del Rio]