Stop whining...

[C0|dB|00ded]

Mid-major teams (ie. teams without the exhilarating athletes) will continue to be left out of the dance and that is good. I have watched many a mid-major matchup with their fast-breaking layup, dunkless/blockless affairs, and I am in agreement with the selection committee that those events are quite boring and best relegated to lower tournaments. Sure, you can "get into" those games sometimes when you have a stake (like your own conference), but there isn't a Shocker fan on here that wouldn't take North Carolina's athletes and UNC's conference competition in a heart-beat.

The NCAA tourney is a place for teams with players of the highest caliber (NBA potential) to strut their stuff in front of a captivated live audience. It's a made for television event with the goal being the highest level of entertainment and a great recruiting ground for the NBA scouts. Bradley had a 7footer that was drawing the attention of the NBA, they got in. WSU had a possible All-American 6'10" center that was getting a lot of love from ESPN and proved he could play in the big-time against MSU's twin towers. Plus, we finished at the top of the league in a season where our league was as strong as it had been in over 20 years. Not only did we get in but we got a very nice seeding.

Listening to everybody on here moan about the "BCS Bias" is about as silly to me as hearing somebody moan about how the rich get to buy more neat things than they do. If you want to consistently get into the dance, you better be signing the big-time recruits. If you are consistently signing the big-time recruits, you will probably be winning more games than you lose, and also be (or eventually be) in a name conference. NCAA college basketball is still a free market system. The odds are stacked against an IUPUI, but Memphis and Gonzaga have proven that you can achieve the highest level of play, regardless of your conferece, in this "rigged" system.

Most college basketball fans (including me) don't want to watch little teams with their 3-balls and their "cute" little scrums under the basket. We want to watch games where a rebound is finished with a resounding dunk. We don't want to watch "solid" post defense WITH THE ARMS STRAIGHT UP AND THE FEET FIRMLY PLANTED!!!!11111eleven. We want to see a skywalker soar in and send the ball into a different zip-code. Mid-major programs can beat major programs because they are scrappy, fast, and much smaller. The goal for the mid-major is always defense first, and DON'T LET THE BIG BOYS PLAY THEIR GAME. Well I'm sorry but ESPN, and the rest of the U.S. for that matter, wants to see the big boys "play their game". We don't want to see an SIU-C turn what could be a beautiful game into a half-court, turnover-foul-fest.

So with that said, if you want to play with the big boys, you need to recruit AND SIGN the big boys. Other than that, I'm pretty happy with most conferences besides the big 6 getting just one bid except in some very special circumstances like Memphis, Gonzaga, etc. etc. If you can trick, drug, or kidnap a couple 4-star/5-star players to sign with your mid-major team, you will probably be rewarded with a spot in the dance.

There is no conspiracy. It is all about recruiting.


T


...8)

[Rosewood]

This is really the same reason very few of us watch Women's basketball.

Basically I agree with and just want to add to it.

Upsets are a fantastic part of this tourney, so that is why I would never want to see the automatic bids go away.

But what I want is the representation from each conference and the best of the other teams out there. On any given day, yes I think a CU game and a Texas A&M or Okie State game could go either way. But both TAM and OSU played a harder schedule, even if it was thanks to their conference, than CU.

I can promise you that if The Valley 1) Played a better schedule and 2) had some stars (at least college level stars) that we would see more than one team in.

So yes, stop with the qq. We all knew this was a poop year for the Valley and this is just the final proof.

Can we all just agree that if CU goes one and done in the NIT that they probably would have done the same in the NCAA and if that had been the case it really would not have helped the Valley in future consideration? I think we can.

[ShockerFever]

I stopped reading after here:

Mid-major teams (ie. teams without the exhilarating athletes) will continue to be left out of the dance and that is good.

[jocoshock]

Re: Stop whining...

So with that said, if you want to play with the big boys, you need to recruit AND SIGN the big boys. Other than that, I'm pretty happy with most conferences besides the big 6 getting just one bid except in some very special circumstances like Memphis, Gonzaga, etc. etc. If you can trick, drug, or kidnap a couple 4-star/5-star players to sign with your mid-major team, you will probably be rewarded with a spot in the dance.

There is no conspiracy. It is all about recruiting.

T

...8)

Just one problem Cold. When the so-called Mid-Majors do recruit the type of players you speak of, they get put on probation, because everyone knows they have to cheat to get players to come to their schools....

30 years ago Valley schools could recruit those players. As the big schools squeezed them out of the tourneys and off the TV screens, the recruiting well dried up. The system is rigged - just like house rules at the Casino.

The power conferences have stacked the deck with revenue against the smaller schoools. And oh, by the way, many of these schools do have the athletes, but can't get them on the floor against the big boys unless it is on the big boys home court...

In the old days if you didn't win your conference you didn't go to the dance. Now all you have to do is be in a big conference and not suck...

I don't buy your argument....

[Ashockalypse]

CB,

Stupid erroneous rant. Try and do better. If what you are saying is true then you would never want to watch our Shockers. There is no way to wipe out the bias but when a 25 game winner from our conference is left out then next year or the year after, that will be us. It is easy to say go recruit better but you are going against conferences who have 30 times better of a chance of getting postseason play. They can suck and still go. If that is whining then too bad... Another good choice would be for all the mids and lowers to break off from the power conferences and never play them. Let them remain in the NCAA and beat up on each other. Why serve as early season Cannon fodder for them and then watch the world worship them in march from the couch.

[Rosewood]

Re: Stop whining...

So with that said, if you want to play with the big boys, you need to recruit AND SIGN the big boys. Other than that, I'm pretty happy with most conferences besides the big 6 getting just one bid except in some very special circumstances like Memphis, Gonzaga, etc. etc. If you can trick, drug, or kidnap a couple 4-star/5-star players to sign with your mid-major team, you will probably be rewarded with a spot in the dance.

There is no conspiracy. It is all about recruiting.

T

...8)

Just one problem Cold. When the so-called Mid-Majors do recruit the type of players you speak of, they get put on probation, because everyone knows they have to cheat to get players to come to their schools....

30 years ago Valley schools could recruit those players. As the big schools squeezed them out of the tourneys and off the TV screens, the recruiting well dried up. The system is rigged - just like house rules at the Casino.

The power conferences have stacked the deck with revenue against the smaller schoools. And oh, by the way, many of these schools do have the athletes, but can't get them on the floor against the big boys unless it is on the big boys home court...

In the old days if you didn't win your conference you didn't go to the dance. Now all you have to do is be in a big conference and not suck...

I don't buy your argument....

That is a bunch of QQ BS. There is talent to be had not by the big schools, see Stephen Curry and his family.

It is a harder road, sure. But don't make it sound like the road is covered in black ice and on fire and will eat you.

[Rosewood]

a 25 game winner

24, and even then when you look at the competition, it is quite suspect.

[ShockerFever]

I'd have Creighton as the last team out anyways, but how would Cold feel if we we're in sCUm's position right now?

[ShockerPrez]

I agree with the fact that people want to watch athletes play the game as opposed to lesser athletes outmaneveur.

However, how do you explain the Big 10? After all, they do boast a 38 point output....

[shock10]

If you want change don't watch the games that will bring a change.

[The Mad Hatter]

1. Cold - if what you think is good basketball is what you have described, then I have a simple solution for you: Watch the NBA and let those of us that care about fundamentals and team play have college ball. The NBA is chock full of exactly the stuff you describe and you would enjoy it tremendously. March Madness is special precisely because it is something different than the NBA. You may not like it, but that is because you are not a college basketball fan. You are a pro basketball fan. The sooner you realize that the happier all of us will be.

2. Don't even try to pretend that WSU's Sweet 16 works in favor of your argument, because the exact opposite is true. Our Sweet 16 team didn't have a single guy that was NBA caliber. The closest was Paul and he only had a shot because he was theexact opposite of the traits you desire. He wasn't a skywalker. He wasn't a big dunker. He wasn't a shot blocker. He was a guy that played fundamentally sound ball, shared the basketball, established good position and played straight up (the defense you apparently dread because god forbid good defense lead to a missed shot not a blocked shot).

Our Sweet 16 team was exactly the kind of team you described as not being what you want to see in the NCAA's. One that isn't full of the best athletes or flashiest players, but plays the game well enough to beat the NBA caliber laden rosters of other schools.

[jocoshock]

Re: Stop whining...

So with that said, if you want to play with the big boys, you need to recruit AND SIGN the big boys. Other than that, I'm pretty happy with most conferences besides the big 6 getting just one bid except in some very special circumstances like Memphis, Gonzaga, etc. etc. If you can trick, drug, or kidnap a couple 4-star/5-star players to sign with your mid-major team, you will probably be rewarded with a spot in the dance.

There is no conspiracy. It is all about recruiting.

T

...8)

Just one problem Cold. When the so-called Mid-Majors do recruit the type of players you speak of, they get put on probation, because everyone knows they have to cheat to get players to come to their schools....

30 years ago Valley schools could recruit those players. As the big schools squeezed them out of the tourneys and off the TV screens, the recruiting well dried up. The system is rigged - just like house rules at the Casino.

The power conferences have stacked the deck with revenue against the smaller schoools. And oh, by the way, many of these schools do have the athletes, but can't get them on the floor against the big boys unless it is on the big boys home court...

In the old days if you didn't win your conference you didn't go to the dance. Now all you have to do is be in a big conference and not suck...

I don't buy your argument....

That is a bunch of QQ BS. There is talent to be had not by the big schools, see Stephen Curry and his family.

It is a harder road, sure. But don't make it sound like the road is covered in black ice and on fire and will eat you.

Early to mid 80's NBA talent from the Valley:
Antoine Carr, Cliff Levingston, Xavier McDaniel, Ozell Jones, Greg Dreiling (WSU)Paul Pressey, Mike Harris(Tulsa)Lewis Lloyd (Drake)Hersey Hawkins, Jim Les, Mitchell Anderson, David Thirdkill (Bradley)Benoit Benjamin, Kevin McKenna, Alex Stivrins(Creighton)

Certainly there have been others since that time, but not as many. 1979 was the threshold year when the power conferences made their move to solidiy power. Bird vs. Magic. It has been downhill ever since. It was much easier before then for schools like WSU to schedule power conference teams - even in Wichita. Just go back an look at past schedules in the 60s and 70s in particular.

It is much, much harder now because of TVthe tourneys, and money.

[ShockCounselor]

One issue with Cold's rationale. While I agree it is significantly about recruiting, the ability to recruit is significantly about MONEY. The BCS schools have the rather daunting advantage of major television contracts which not only provides major dollars but also provides a captive media audience (recruits) to which the contracted mouthpieces of the media can continuously promote the BCS conferences. It is a perfect self-perpetuating circumstance that is nearly impossible to overcome. I'm not sure what the answer is to help equalize the playing (recruiting) field a bit. Perhaps a non-conference related revenue sharing of some nature. That said, I also am interested in watching the best teams and most talented players although those are not always synonymous. I don't think there is any question that many times that an extremely good, effective, successful team does not necessarily have the top atheletes. Occasionally a coach is able to match a system with a particular group of players that creates something that's really exciting to watch ... chemistry. As a fan and student of the game, this is just as enjoyable to me, as watching the high caliber, high flying atheletes.

[C0|dB|00ded]

CB,

Stupid erroneous rant. Try and do better. If what you are saying is true then you would never want to watch our Shockers. There is no way to wipe out the bias but when a 25 game winner from our conference is left out then next year or the year after, that will be us. It is easy to say go recruit better but you are going against conferences who have 30 times better of a chance of getting postseason play. They can suck and still go. If that is whining then too bad... Another good choice would be for all the mids and lowers to break off from the power conferences and never play them. Let them remain in the NCAA and beat up on each other. Why serve as early season Cannon fodder for them and then watch the world worship them in march from the couch.

Stupid erroneous rant. Try and do better. If what you are saying is true then you would never want to watch our Shockers.

If I had a nickel for every time a person attacks the credibility of a statement with an even bigger illogical statement...

Why do you think I watch and support our Shockers? Could it be that I graduated from that school?

Pay close attention to this part of my post:

Sure, you can "get into" those games sometimes when you have a stake...

T


...8)

[C0|dB|00ded]

I'd have Creighton as the last team out anyways, but how would Cold feel if we we're in sCUm's position right now?

I would be hoping like hell that we sneak into the Dance so we can continue to build our program into what I envision it eventually becoming. A program with top athletes that is just as fun to watch as the rest of the BCS teams.


T


...8)