Announcement

**kcshocker11** · January 25, 2009, 10:47 AM

I know your right Doc, at least on this issue. Ive watched college basketball for almost fifty years now and can clearly see where our program is headed and it looks like its on the right path. Younger fans take heart it takes time to paint a masterpiece.

**DUShock** · January 25, 2009, 11:29 AM

I agree with the your assessment Doc but contend this is HCGM's first "full" season for all intents & purposes. I say this given how "lean" we were running in Turg's last season, the timing of Turg's departure, and the number of defections in M.T.ks signees after his departure. Last season HCGM did not have the time to overcome this obstacle. For the record I do not blame M.T. for the timing of his departure buth rather circumstance. I truly appreciate all that M.T. did for the program and he gave me two incredible trips (Greensboro & DC) as well as a fun time in Vegas. HCGM will provide more goodtimes than M.T. Save your nickles & dimes we'll be dancing again by 2011.

**Aargh** · January 25, 2009, 11:43 AM

Glad you started this thread, doc. I was just thinking about player development in the program.

Look at Hatch, Durley, and Ellis. They are better players than a year ago. In some cases WAAAY better players than a year ago. Some of that can be attributed to being a year older and having some D1 experience, but some of it has to be attributed to the coaching staff.

Players at WSU are developing and improving. If Murry develops from his Fr to his So year anywhere close to what we're seeing from other players, he'll be mighty scary.

**DUShock** · January 25, 2009, 11:48 AM

Aargh I am looking forward to being "scared" by Murray! Murray's development this season should give comfort to any seasoned Shocker fan. :good:

Go Shocks!!!!

**giskard** · January 25, 2009, 01:32 PM

One point to keep in mind comparing the financial state of the program today to 05-07 time frame is the economy. Having a program even close to as financially sound as then is quite an accomplishment. When the economy recovers, the program should be in a very nice position financially.

**C0|dB|00ded** · January 25, 2009, 05:26 PM

Re: Building Update

Originally posted by WuDrWu

Most of us knew it would take some time and it will. There will be good times like the last few days and bad times like at MSU.

Are we moving ahead? Let's take a summary look.......

Coaching: Too early to tell, imho but I submit that Gregg is way ahead of where Mark was in his second year here. Gregg is just slightly older than Mark so the comparision is fair. With a second year coach, we are ahead of where we were the last time this happened. Gregg's assistants are solid, experienced and deep. Adding Matt takes another step forward.

Financial: It would be very tough to move ahead of where we were in the 05-07 time frame but we haven't lost much ground at all. Ticket sales are high, donations continue to pour in, the golf tournament is as successful as ever. We run our program at a level that 99% of non BCS schools would kill or die to. Another rough ending to the season will certainly not help, but we are still in sound shape. We aren't in better shape, but combined with the continued strength of other programs, we haven't lost any significant ground.

Support: Down a little but not much. Everyone has their bandwaggoners. We are no different. A few wins and the love will be overflowing again, and probably more so as those that missed out last time will not want to miss out again.

Personell:

A)Talent: Physically, we are more talented than we've been in 25 years. That seems almost indesputable. Basketball wise we are getting there but not yet. Soon, but not yet. Still this is the most talent save the 05-07 season, since again the 80s. Also, we have THE best player to come into the program since Maurice Evans and Jason Perez. You then have to go back to John Cooper. When you are in the top 4 in 21 years, you are good.

B)Depth: This is where I see us having made GYNORMOUS strides. In the span of 20 months, we have gone from a decimated team to a team that can go to 11 players on any given night that bring something special to the table. Next year we even add to that. There are basically no "projects" although Jerome will be considered one next year and to some extent Ehimen the next however, neither will be counted on to produce anything but hard work and that is not going to be a issue.

Quality of Student Athlete: Another area that has been very sound of late and today is no different. If anything we are even stronger. If you haven't met some of these kids, try to. I won't list everyone because I don't want to feel like I am intentionally omitting any one person but this is an OUTSTANDING group of young men from good, supportive families. The best I've known in 30 years. From my personal experience, at a MINIMUM, there are 6 young men that would be welcome in my home to live tomorrow and whom I would proudly raise as my own if the situation called for. They are that special.

Now it's time to just go out and win baby. Special times are on the horizon.

:wsu_posters: :goshocks: :posterwu: :posterwsu:

Just about posted this a bit too soon bro! :good:

What an ugly display today... The basketball gods definitely owed us one though..

Talent: Physically, we are more talented than we've been in 25 years. That seems almost indesputable.

It's been disputed almost constantly on this forum. It was only a month
ago that many on here wanted to yank everybody's scholarship except for Toure's and Stutz's. I even think you were calling for some players to "go home".. *ahem*. :D

Depth: This is where I see us having made GYNORMOUS strides. In the span of 20 months, we have gone from a decimated team to a team that can go to 11 players on any given night that bring something special to the table.

Hold on there speed racer.. We've won two games solidly and one against E-ville that was gift-wrapped and handed to us. It's going to take some time before we truly know how "deep" we are.

From my personal experience, at a MINIMUM, there are 6 young men that would be welcome in my home to live tomorrow and whom I would proudly raise as my own if the situation called for. They are that special.

If you truly are in that close contact with the players then there is no doubt that you should not be reading or participating in this forum. You should follow the same advice that we give to parents of players. How can you read and stomach what many on here say about players you would gladly adopt?

T

...8)

**WuDrWu** · January 25, 2009, 09:39 PM

Re: Building Update

Originally posted by C0|dB|00ded

Just about posted this a bit too soon bro! :good:

What an ugly display today... The basketball gods definitely owed us one though..

Very little of my post had anything to do about today. It was about the health of the program. Winning always helps, losing always hurts.

But I agree that was one ugly game that we were very fortunate to come out of winners.

It's been disputed almost constantly on this forum. It was only a month ago that many on here wanted to yank everybody's scholarship except for Toure's and Stutz's. I even think you were calling for some players to "go home".. *ahem*. :D

I haven't seen the overall talent questioned that often. I have seen the effort questioned. My comments were about effort and committment, not talent. I am certainly man enough to admit that certain players have bought in and are more deserving of their scholarship of late.

Hold on there speed racer.. We've won two games solidly and one against E-ville that was gift-wrapped and handed to us. It's going to take some time before we truly know how "deep" we are.

Listen Milt Friedman, I won't profess to correct you on macro-economics, you don't question me when I have evaluated and compared talent in our program over the last 30 years, deal? Or do I need to bring David King and Casey Crawford into the discussion?

If you truly are in that close contact with the players then there is no doubt that you should not be reading or participating in this forum. You should follow the same advice that we give to parents of players. How can you read and stomach what many on here say about players you would gladly adopt?

1)I consider one of my strengths is that I can get a pretty good read on someone in a short period of time. It serves me well often.

2)There is a lot of doubt about that. Many, in fact, would question whether or not you add anything to the discussion here.

3)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkKch-CAlgM

I think Mike says it better than I can.

**C0|dB|00ded** · January 26, 2009, 12:03 AM