I Believe We Are Improving

[MikeShox]

OK, I know there is a lot of gnashing of teeth right now, but let's consider where we stand.

How many times have we seen Shocker teams (as well as other teams) hit a wall at this time of the season? Especially teams that are loaded with youth. It is not unusual.

The team lost to Creighton at their house. It could have been a win if they had continued to play the way they did the 1st 19 minutes, but keep in mind that it was a road game with this very young team

Another loss to Bradley here that should have been a win. Disappointing, but Bradley also broke Illinois State's winning streak last night. They also exploded against Creighton in the 2nd half of their game and won by 20.

The 2nd half of the UNI game was horrible. Keep in mind though that this is the same UNI team that has road wins against both SIU and Creighton.

Yes, if the team had played the whole game against Creighton and UNI the way they did the 1st 18 minutes or so and had made just another play or 2 against Bradley, they would be 3 - 0 instead of 0 - 3, but I strongly believe the maturity will come and we will see a much improved team by the end of this year, more so next year and watch on in 2010/2011.

And, let's look at who is playing by position compared to last year and see what we think.

PG - Starters - Braeuer VS Hannah. I loved Matt, but Clevin has an edge in my opinion. Back up - Mekel VS Chamberlain. I have to go with Chamberlain as a better bet to run the team. Of course, we'll have Manigault to add to the mix next year.

SG - Starters - Mekel VS Murry. I believe Toure is light years ahead of Gal, even as a Freshman. I also feel that having Kyles, Chamberlain and Hatch to back up is far better than Harris, Hatch and Preadom. David Kyles is going to provide a lot of exciting moments in the years to come.

SF - While Hawkins has had some nice moments, he is not at the Couisnard level and may never be, I do believe we have not seen the best of AJ yet. Plus, hopefully he will be joined by Johnny Coy next year and we'll be much stronger at the 3.

PF - Very little change between last year and this. Hopefully Gabe Blair will be able to provide more offense next year than Ramon while continuing to provide some good rebounding and defense. Plus, Hamilton will be here although I personally hope the team is in position to redshirt him.

C - Stutz has made some freshmen mistakes, but I'd take what he is doing over what Thomasson did as a senior last year, and Garrett will only improve in the years to come. Durley has not shown a great deal of improvement since last year, although he has played good defense in a couple of games.

I really like the potential of Murry, Stutz, Kyles and believe we have some good days ahead from Chamberlain as well. I am excited about Manigault and Hamilton coming next year and hopefully Johnny Coy. I still would not be surprised to see someone leave and hopefully a really good replacement coming in before next year. Not that I'm saying anything specific, just that it is not a bit unusual for a player to decide he would like to try something different if he doesn't see a good future.

I for one will continue to support my team, as I have for close to 50 years. I'll be there cheering like crazy tonight. Hang in there and keep up the support.

[SubGod22]

Clevin gets the advantage as far as scoring but I think Matt ran the team better and actually gave us a better ability to push the ball even though we didn't seem to do it much. He was much faster than Clevin and I think a better floor general.

As irritating as Gal was he backed up the point better than Chamberlain, who has shown nothing more than being a Sean Ogirri. Except Sean could shoot off the dribble better.

Other than that I agree with you. And our depth is much better.

[newshock1234]

Our Bench really needs to start steping up

[RoyalShock]

Clevin gets the advantage as far as scoring but I think Matt ran the team better and actually gave us a better ability to push the ball even though we didn't seem to do it much. He was much faster than Clevin and I think a better floor general.

As irritating as Gal was he backed up the point better than Chamberlain, who has shown nothing more than being a Sean Ogirri. Except Sean could shoot off the dribble better.

Other than that I agree with you. And our depth is much better.

Sub, you beat me to it. Additionally, Matt was more vocal. According to Marshall, Clevin just isn't a "rah-rah" type of guy and leads quietly. That can work OK, but I would like for him to be a little more vocal with his teammates. Maybe that will come as he gets more comfortable.

[ShockTalk]

Individually, and on paper, one would think that this team should be better than they've been so far. But that's the rub -- it's a team sport. Playing as a unit, with energy and confidence, can hide a lot of short comings athletically. On the reverse, not doing this, whether because of inexperience or just being thick-headed, can make a group of athletic players look pretty bad. We've had our moments where we've looked good, but as young and inexperienced as we are, we can only hope that HCGM will get them looking more like a TEAM as soon as possible. There will also be a "weeding out". It's frustrating now, but I believe better times are definitely ahead.

:wsu_posters: :wsu_posters:

[Snapshot9]

Looking at only the positives and not the negatives paints a slanted viewpoint.
We, I think, are getting better (although you couldn't prove it by the UNI game), but are we improving more than the other teams in the MVC?

And the answer is no, we are not. It is just kind of sad when you have to mark off a whole season because the team can't get it together (I am not getting any younger, 61 in 2 weeks) and I want to see them do something.

I think you made your posts with Shocker glasses on, so to speak.

Hawkins has improved, Hannah has hit a few shots, Murry started out better than he is doing now, Chamberlain just puts up shots, doesn't really run the team. Hatch is pretty much a non-factor this season. Clemente is hard working. Kyles did something 2 times, and that's all. Ellis and Griskenas are pretty much non-factors. Stutz looks okay 1 game and then not another game. Durley is frustrating.

When we start winning, we can say we are getting better. Until then, I won't hold my breath.

[shocker0624]

As irritating as Gal was he backed up the point better than Chamberlain, who has shown nothing more than being a Sean Ogirri. Except Sean could shoot off the dribble better

mmmm good point

[RoyalShock]

Mike's comparison to last year is pretty good. Here is how for me, reality differs from expectations.

Ellis - Huge disappointment. Didn't expect him to be a starter, but I did expect we'd see 12-15 minutes, 5-6 points and 3-4 rebounds a game from him.

Hawkins - Minor disappointment. I was expecting near Cooz-like offensive production (12-13 ppg).

Clemente - Scoring has been a disappointment. Was hoping for 3-4 more ppg from him.

Kyles - Minor disappointment. I thought he'd be the #2 SF and get 10 mpg and 3-4 ppg. He's probably a season away from that.

Stutz - Very slightly minor disappointment. Almost not worth mentioning, but I did expect a little more consistent production from Garrett.

Murry, Hannah, Chamberlain, Durley - Pretty much what I expected.

Team - I thought we'd be gelling about now and putting up good numbers on offense. We seem to be going the other direction and I'm not sure tonight's game against SIU will prove much of anything, in that regard.


Looking ahead to next year (I know I shouldn't, but I am) I think we'll see the results we expected this year. For one thing, we'll have a better established depth chart/rotation:

PG - Hannah, Manigault, Chamberlain
SG - Murry, Chamberlain, Kyles, Hatch
SF - Hawkins, Kyles, Hatch
PF - Blair, Ellis/Hamilton
C - Stutz, Durley

That assumes only current roster and recruits. If Coy comes, put him at #2 SF. Should Ellis not come back (no info, just a reasonable possiblity) and we get a HS/Juco PF, maybe he slides into #2 PF. (I really hope Hamilton can redshirt)

[ShockTalk]

Royal:

Ellis - Agree

Hawkins - Not saying that AJ is as good as Cooz, but he also doesn't have the experienced supporting cast that Cooz had.

Kyles, Stutz - With rare exception, one should never be disappointed about what a freshman does unless he's a complete bust or a 5 star recruit.

Murry - Point in case. I've been pleasantly surprised by Murry. He's as athletic as billed. Most here thought he'd be playing behind Chamberlain, yet, half way through his first season, he's averaging 10.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, and 26 mpg.

Hannah - More than expected scoring wise. By the time Matt was a junior, he had two years of experience with a S16 team. That'll give you a lot of confidence to be a vocal PG.

Chamberlain - Can one expect much more from a one year Juco than you can from a freshman through half a season?

Hatch - Jury is still out.

Durley - He's given me reason as a sophmore that there may actually be hope.

[shockall]

As HCGM eluded to last week, there may be some additional roster changes in next year's team. I do not believe he is seeing the type of improvement he expected out of the current group.

As several people on SN have stated,......the minor improvements seen on the young shockers probably do not match the player improvements of young players on other MVC teams.

[ShockTalk]

I will say, without looking first, that many young players with other MVC teams may have a more experienced roster to work with and learn from.

[ShockerFever]

who has shown nothing more than being a Sean Ogirri. Except Sean could shoot off the dribble better.

I don't get the reason why we're hating on Sean O. He may have been a defensive liability at times, but why the hate? Is it because he's not with us anymore and transferred out?

He was a hell of a shooter and ice veins at the foul line. Kinda funny, we're lacking in those categories right now. I' wish we had Sean O. this year.

[SubGod22]

who has shown nothing more than being a Sean Ogirri. Except Sean could shoot off the dribble better.

I don't get the reason why we're hating on Sean O. He may have been a defensive liability at times, but why the hate? Is it because he's not with us anymore and transferred out?

He was a hell of a shooter and ice veins at the foul line. Kinda funny, we're lacking in those categories right now. I' wish we had Sean O. this year.

I'm not hating on Sean. Sean was not a PG. Chamberlain is supposed to be but is nothing more than a spot up shooter. And not as good as Sean. I have never "hated" on Sean. He had weaknesses that were discussed. Like running the point or being a strong passer. A lot like Chamberlain.

[ShockerFever]

who has shown nothing more than being a Sean Ogirri. Except Sean could shoot off the dribble better.

I don't get the reason why we're hating on Sean O. He may have been a defensive liability at times, but why the hate? Is it because he's not with us anymore and transferred out?

He was a hell of a shooter and ice veins at the foul line. Kinda funny, we're lacking in those categories right now. I' wish we had Sean O. this year.

I'm not hating on Sean. Sean was not a PG. Chamberlain is supposed to be but is nothing more than a spot up shooter. And not as good as Sean. I have never "hated" on Sean. He had weaknesses that were discussed. Like running the point or being a strong passer. A lot like Chamberlain.

That's why Sean would/should never be a PG. He's a true No.2, no doubt about it.

He made a good pass to a floppy-haired PG on Valentine's night in 2006.. :whistle:

I have yet to see a 'strong' passer on this entire team, cept a few flashes from Hannah once in a while.

[Ricky Del Rio]

who has shown nothing more than being a Sean Ogirri. Except Sean could shoot off the dribble better.

I don't get the reason why we're hating on Sean O. He may have been a defensive liability at times, but why the hate? Is it because he's not with us anymore and transferred out?

He was a hell of a shooter and ice veins at the foul line. Kinda funny, we're lacking in those categories right now. I' wish we had Sean O. this year.

I'm not hating on Sean. Sean was not a PG. Chamberlain is supposed to be but is nothing more than a spot up shooter. And not as good as Sean. I have never "hated" on Sean. He had weaknesses that were discussed. Like running the point or being a strong passer. A lot like Chamberlain.

Plus Sean could not dribble penetrate or create a shot from outside. If a defender waved a hand in his face, Sean's shot percentage went down.

As you say, he was a pure shooter from 3 and the line. In high school, he shot about 50% from the 3 line.

In his last year, he could not hardly get open for a shot. The opponents just put a man on him and the man was instructed not to help defense. Just stay on Sean. (Convoluted English there, but you get the picture.)