Shockers vs. Emporia State game thread

[SpanglerFan316]

MikeShox: It's too early to tell and one has to recall that AJ was hurt some last year and might still need improvement to get back to his best form. Having said that, however, I'll offer an opinion on the "playing 8 (or 9)" for this part of the season; I don't care who starts but who plays substantial minutes (say 12-15 or more minutes).

Six who will play a lot

Clevin Hannah: Height: 5-11 Weight: 155
A wonderful point guard who can shoot when necessary but will have problems defending tall guards.

Ramon Clemente: Height: 6-6 Weight: 225
The man!!

Toure' Murry: Height: 6-4 Weight: 183
Good shooter, good athletic skills

J.T. Durley: Height: 6-7 Weight: 233
Great offense, better defense and a player who will give the other team a lot of trouble.

Garrett Stutz: Height: 7-0 Weight: 235
Good offensive skills who is needed now and should develop into a great player.

Aaron Ellis: Height: 6-9 Weight: 205
6-9 is a question since he didn't look to me to be 3" or more (if Stutz is really 7-1) shorter than Stutz, has shown good offensive skills in the past, needs to improve defense.

Two more players

Here are the options for players getting significant playing time.
Graham Hatch: Height: 6-4 Weight: 204
Reggie Chamberlain: Height: 6-0 Weight: 168
David Kyles: Height: 6-3 Weight: 179
A.J. Hawkins: Height: 6-5 Weight: 202
Mantas Griskenas: Height: 6-7 Weight: 220

Among three players in this group who might get time as the small forward/tall guard (i.e. 3) we have Hatch, Hawkins and Griskenas. AJ did not impress me with his defense last night. Without improvement, I would worry; with significant improvement, he might be great. I would pick Hatch over Hawkins for this Sunday if I were the coach, if only to reward his fantastic improvement. Griskenas was supposed to be a three point expert but he didn't really show it last year; Griskenas has never shown the ability to hit the three that Hatch has already shown us. Griskenas and Hawkins also seem to be targets of the injury bug. At this moment, Hatch looks better than the other two; in a week, this opinion might be completely different.

Chamberlain can certainly shoot (4-5, 3-3 from the three) and had three assists but two turnovers. I had the feeling that Chamberlain and Kyles were both a little lost on the court; this impression might be wrong.

At this moment, I would pick Hatch and Chamberlain as the other two players to get 12-15 minutes; both should be able to hit the three. However this leaves us a bit short in the backcourt with Hanna, Murry and Chamberlain as guards. Without good defense, we will have a very bad MVC season; sitting Hawkins until his defense improves might send a message which pays off in March.

[WuDrWu]

I just can't see this team, this year, ever being an 8 man rotation unless the injury bug continues to plague us. There is too much youth to expect that 8 will be consistent enough to provide sound play for 40 minutes.

[Shocker85]

I just can't see this team, this year, ever being an 8 man rotation unless the injury bug continues to plague us. There is too much youth to expect that 8 will be consistent enough to provide sound play for 40 minutes.

I agree with the Doc.

Harshall's '05/'06 Winthrop team had 10 guys who averages 11 minutes or more, with a core of 8 over 14 minutes. No player over 30 minutes. Record: 23-8.

His '06/'07 team had 9 guys averaging 13 or more minutes with a sharp drop-off after those 9. One player right at 30 minutes, all other less. Record: 29-5.

Marshall's up-tempo style and pressing defense (if the '08/'09 team gets there), demands substitutions. Marshall will tinker and figure out which combinations work and which players are willing to go 110% while on the floor. I'm betting 9 or 10 men see frequent action.

--'85.

[SubGod22]

I would expect to see 9 get good minutes. Who they are will probably change a bit from game to game. The starters from last night will get minutes. Mantas and Aaron are going to get minutes. Reggie and Garrett are going to get minutes. Graham will play. David will see court time. Some guys will move in and out of the rotation from time to time.

It's going to be fun and painful and exciting

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Looking at how things went last night, and that Hatch is looking very solid...any possibility Kyles takes a RS?

[bloodgold]

Very Minor point...

...but didn't Kyles score more than 1 bucket? I thought he scored on consecutive trips down the floor.

Box score shows 3 total points....

[SB Shock]

The following excerpts taken from Shockwave Blog on chamberlain http://blogs.kansas.com/shockwaves/ But lots of additional good stuff beyond that.

I walked off the court last night thinking that Reggie Chamberlain was the most interesting angle to Monday’s exhibition win over Emporia State. I thought that during the interview session and after the questions and answers. Somehow, I failed to relay that development adequately in the story.

Monday’s performance in the closing minutes should be a boost to Chamberlain’s confidence (and maybe that was the plan). Marshall likes his shooting ability. He is also an excellent free-throw shooter, a handy asset in close games. I think Chamberlain’s solid performance (11 points on 4-of-5 shooting and 3-of-3 from three) is a nice step for the Shockers out of the exhibition game. Three assists and two turnovers is not ideal, but Chamberlain’s performance is definitely something for him to build on.

[Rosewood]

This may seem kind of hurr durr but let me just throw it out there and tell me what you guys think...

Last year, early on, we saw the guys taking a LOT of threes. One game in particular that we lost by a small margin, it was just painful. Every time a three would go up, the crowd would groan. We talked about it and we agreed that the vast majority of those shots were not dumb shots.

At the time there was discussion on if that is what the coach wanted, or if the players were just taking the shots. I remember in the post game interview, Marshall kind of left that discussion open. He said something along the lines that if they would have made one of those, the roof would have come off, etc. but he also made it seem like he was trying to tell them to get it inside and they weren't able to / weren't listening.

It was my opinion at the time that those shots / that style was planned. It really seemed like they were doing what they were told to do, namely kill from the 3 to open up the inside. It just seemed like the plays were setup to do that and it was a coaching call. The talent just wasn't there.

Ok, vague recollection there but we are on the same page, right?

Last night I saw a lot of three point shots that made me think about the same thing. I guess it just reinforced my previous conclusion that HCGM wants the 3 point shot to be a killer weapon.

What say you on this old discussion?

[pinstripers]

I think it's stupid to announce attendence at 10,500 when the house is half-empty. I'd rather they said "paid attendence" or just did not announce at all, in those instances.

[WuDrWu]

This may seem kind of hurr durr but let me just throw it out there and tell me what you guys think...

Last year, early on, we saw the guys taking a LOT of threes. One game in particular that we lost by a small margin, it was just painful. Every time a three would go up, the crowd would groan. We talked about it and we agreed that the vast majority of those shots were not dumb shots.

At the time there was discussion on if that is what the coach wanted, or if the players were just taking the shots. I remember in the post game interview, Marshall kind of left that discussion open. He said something along the lines that if they would have made one of those, the roof would have come off, etc. but he also made it seem like he was trying to tell them to get it inside and they weren't able to / weren't listening.

It was my opinion at the time that those shots / that style was planned. It really seemed like they were doing what they were told to do, namely kill from the 3 to open up the inside. It just seemed like the plays were setup to do that and it was a coaching call. The talent just wasn't there.

Ok, vague recollection there but we are on the same page, right?

Last night I saw a lot of three point shots that made me think about the same thing. I guess it just reinforced my previous conclusion that HCGM wants the 3 point shot to be a killer weapon.

What say you on this old discussion?

One of the simplest barometers of successful basketball is field goal percentage. You are going to be VERY hard pressed to find a good team that shoots 39% from the field and likewise it is extremely difficult to find a team that shoots 51% from the floor and has a losing record.

Gregg always talked about not worrying about getting shooters, he wants makers. Well my friends, he's got some makers now. It is very hard to teach someone to be a maker. You can teach defensive positioning, you can teach technique...it's tough to teach somebody to be a maker.

How many times last season did you watch us get the ball in a great position only to miss a bunny? Well, it was a lot......EVERY GAME. That is unlikely to be the case going forward. This team has makers. 53.2% last night, regardless of the competition, works. It's not as if we had 7 breakaway dunks. Most of our baskets were contested shots. The FTs don't concern me....yet. This team will shoot FT's at a 73% clip or better, mark my words.

[pogo]

If you can hit the trey it does open up the middle and keeps them honest on the perimeter so they don't lay off and double down. The way J. Howard played his senior year by staying on the perimeter let his man lay off him and only had to commit if Howard drove the basket. Lord knows he was never a 'threat' to light it up from the outside. Hit some threes, open up the middle, then kill em with the inside game and let the opposition pick their poison. We have the weapons this year to hit the trey from several people.

[MikeShox]

I just can't see this team, this year, ever being an 8 man rotation unless the injury bug continues to plague us. There is too much youth to expect that 8 will be consistent enough to provide sound play for 40 minutes.

While I read that someone from the staff said last night that they were pointing toward an 8 man rotation, I tend to agree with Doc that it seems unlikely. I really do expect to see at least 9 players getting lots of minutes throughout the season.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

But I dont see them wasting a year of eligibility for Kyles to be an 8 min a game guy.

[Ricky Del Rio]

Here is my test question as follows:

Which team won the last 33:35 minutes of the game? Yes, I know the game is 40 minutes long.

Some observations:

1. Murry has a fluid grace, which I do not see too often. A smooth operator.

2. With respect to Garrett and future promise, put me down in the wait and see column.

3. When Durley lost his cool and initiated his bull rush, I wonder what Coach Marshall was thinking at the time. I don't think it was "Good try."

4. The point guard dilemma is over and I mean over.

5. ESU has a little bit of SIU in them. They play in your shorts defense.

6. At half time, I told Teresa that #22 would not score more than 4 points in the second half. He scored 2. Actually, Hannah was on him to start the second half. Hatch had him some and there was a third Shocker on him, but I cannot remember who it was.

7. #22 is one of those guys, who can put the ball in the hole, provided no one is in his face. Sorta like Sean Ogirri.

[SubGod22]

#22 was Matt Boswell from KMC and was looked at by WSU. But as many have said in the past his biggest knock is his slow release. He's definitely a good shooter but if he's not left open will struggle some. It was good to see him have a good game though in front of his home town.

I didn't notice Moore do much other than push Stutz around inside. But Moore has always been a big strong kid so that didn't surprise me one bit. He held his own strength wise with JT.

Hopefully those to Wichita kids have good careers at ESU.