A new Shocker forum?

[chitown_shocker]

Furthermore, no one was reprimanded for it by me or any SN staff.

The SN staff should be reprimanded. This board has just crossed the line and has become a tool of the WSU athletic department. I understand that public opinion is not on my side. I understand that the admins of this forum have the only true "rights" as far as the content of the board. I just hope you understand the compromise you made.

I hope that you adhere to your professed principles in the future – in a much boarder context, of course.

I have always lived my principles. Past, present and future.

I am a bit nonplussed by your post.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I just want to say that I back Royal's decision to remove the practice thread – although I did have a brief chuckle at the limited irony especially in light of a thread Royal recently started in the off-topic forum. That being said, the decision to remove the thread, I’m sure was not taken lightly.

In any event, you people now know the rules. If CGM allows fans to watch practice, fine, but consider it a privilege and keep your mouth shut.

Maggie, I respectfully disagree. If CGM doesn't want people talking about his practices then he shouldn't allow people to watch. To allow people to watch, then try to limit public knowledge is outrageous. In my opinion, knowing an athletic department member contacted Royal to take down the thread reflects poorly on the University. If they feel that HCGMs' personality has been unfairly characterized then they should pursue other alternatives. When you come to terms with the fact that HCGM is very intense, competitive and will win at many costs: really the slightly negative portrait is no big deal. I wouldn't want our current coach to be any other way.

Several people appear aggrevated solely because they are losing a 'privaledge' of watching practices that cold may have ruined. For that, he may owe them an apology.

I also find it ironic about Royal but would have done the same thing in his shoes. Shockernet has rules - fact. Shockernet is a great forum most of the time. If you don't like don't use it (ie. Valleytalk). :wsu_posters:

Cool but I don’t think we disagree about much because…..

I don’t know what, specifically; the athletic department objected to…personally, I didn’t have a problem with the post or the description of practice. In fact, I said so in the thread.

However, the athletic department and CGM have the absolute right to allow access to the basketball program in a manner in which they see fit. To allow fans of the program access to a practice but at the same time to expect some sort of discretion is not outrageous – a bit naive, maybe, but not outrageous. The fact that Royal decided to honor the athletic department’s request – is similarly, on its face, not outrageous – and like I wrote -- a decision, that I can comfortably assume, he did not take lightly. It simply appears to me that the rules of the game were not widely known.

Now that the rules have been clarified, to an extent, – people should act accordingly, that was my point. I guess I don’t think it is a big deal.

I have witnessed a lot of practices and scrimmages over the years and have on several occasions relayed what I have witnessed on this board for the benefit of the fans who cannot attend said events. I am always careful to not include things that could be used against us by other teams or be a direct embarrassment to the staff. Nothing in my post should have embarrassed the staff unless as I said before, they are not confident in their conduct. I, as well as others on here, support the intense nature of the practice. All I said was that those that can't handle it will probably defect or wash-out.

The fact that I discussed line-drills and push-ups and confrontational behavior, and people are acting as if I spilled the beans, is beyond immature and extremely short-sighted. I honestly have no idea why the coaching/admin staff reacted this way. It is an unfortunate response probably mostly due to the way last season went and the pressure for wins this season. It really comes down to a man who gets paid a lot of money and doesn't want ANYTHING coming in the way of it. There were rumors last year and "inside info" that detailed some relationship problems between coach and player. Perhaps coach or staff member is still adjusting to the world of big-time college basketball and the days of tight control are over. Can you imagine how difficult it is to maintain informational control over at a school like KU?


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[C0|dB|00ded]

Cold – What you did just changed the way CGM will choose to interact with the fans and general public. You basically violated trust among the coaching staff and fans. Just because the black curtains weren’t drawn shut and some AD intern made the comment “I don’t think so” when asked if the practices were closed doesn’t give you the right to come on here and discuss Marshall’s practice methods. While the practices may have been quasi-open/closed, you’ve removed all doubt regarding that status. How do I know this? Let’s just say those individuals who might have received a standing offer to observe practices may have lost that opportunity.

Please take your “look at me” act down the street and start your own board. I’d even start a SN collection for those interested in funding the project.

Cold – What you did just changed the way CGM will choose to interact with the fans and general public. You basically violated trust among the coaching staff and fans.

WoW! Little old me and my "vicious" "insider" thread huh? Get some perspective man... :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:


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[C0|dB|00ded]

I just want to say that I back Royal's decision to remove the practice thread – although I did have a brief chuckle at the limited irony especially in light of a thread Royal recently started in the off-topic forum. That being said, the decision to remove the thread, I’m sure was not taken lightly.

In any event, you people now know the rules. If CGM allows fans to watch practice, fine, but consider it a privilege and keep your mouth shut.

Maggie, I respectfully disagree. If CGM doesn't want people talking about his practices then he shouldn't allow people to watch. To allow people to watch, then try to limit public knowledge is outrageous. In my opinion, knowing an athletic department member contacted Royal to take down the thread reflects poorly on the University. If they feel that HCGMs' personality has been unfairly characterized then they should pursue other alternatives. When you come to terms with the fact that HCGM is very intense, competitive and will win at many costs: really the slightly negative portrait is no big deal. I wouldn't want our current coach to be any other way.

Several people appear aggrevated solely because they are losing a 'privaledge' of watching practices that cold may have ruined. For that, he may owe them an apology.

I also find it ironic about Royal but would have done the same thing in his shoes. Shockernet has rules - fact. Shockernet is a great forum most of the time. If you don't like don't use it (ie. Valleytalk). :wsu_posters:

Maggie, I respectfully disagree. If CGM doesn't want people talking about his practices then he shouldn't allow people to watch. To allow people to watch, then try to limit public knowledge is outrageous. In my opinion, knowing an athletic department member contacted Royal to take down the thread reflects poorly on the University. If they feel that HCGMs' personality has been unfairly characterized then they should pursue other alternatives. When you come to terms with the fact that HCGM is very intense, competitive and will win at many costs: really the slightly negative portrait is no big deal. I wouldn't want our current coach to be any other way.

He shoots, he scores!


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[C0|dB|00ded]

To address a few allegations of "irony", what is wrong with supporting freedoms for all and then exercising those freedoms to set the rules of a private enterprise? (like an internet message board). Or pointing out Chris Matthews' inconsisitency (the topic to which I think Maggie is referring to) in wanting use his position as a supposed journalist to ensure a successful presidency only after his guy gets elected? If a "respected" member of the board posted the same thing as CB and was not removed under the same circumstances, I could see the irony.

If CGM doesn't want people talking about his practices then he shouldn't allow people to watch.

Perhaps he trusts those he allows to watch to not publicize what they see. Most reaonable people would understand that if you are invited to practice, then divulge what you see publically, you aren't going to be invited back. So I don't agree with your statement in that regard.

However, the athletic department and CGM have the absolute right to allow access to the basketball program in a manner in which they see fit. To allow fans of the program access to a practice but at the same time to expect some sort of discretion is not outrageous – a bit naive, maybe, but not outrageous. The fact that Royal decided to honor the athletic department’s request – is similarly, on its face, not outrageous – and like I wrote -- a decision, that I can comfortably assume, he did not take lightly. It simply appears to me that the rules of the game were not widely known.

This is a good description of the situation.

The board rules aren't going to cover everything. That's why they change from time-to-time. Sometimes a situation arises that wasn't anticipated and needs addressed. If a board rule had been broken, the thread would have been removed and a public explanation would not really have been necessary. In this situation the board rules didn't address it, so I explained it. Furthermore, no one was reprimanded for it by me or any SN staff.

Perhaps he trusts those he allows to watch to not publicize what they see. Most reaonable people would understand that if you are invited to practice, then divulge what you see publically, you aren't going to be invited back. So I don't agree with your statement in that regard.

You've got 30 curtains open all around the arena, people sitting here and there, janitors walking around cleaning up the aisle. And you want me to believe that we all have an implicit contract to not repeat a single thing we see? Why was the media there then? Paul was watching nearly the entire thing? Was he just there "off the record" for moral support?

Again, what sensitive information did I divulge? This is so hilarious, it's going to turn into an urban legend.

"I heard about this one fan, I think his name was Coldwatered, he took down an entire Wichita State coaching staff when he came back to an internet forum and recounted how all the players were sexually molested during push-up drills."

ROFL!


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[C0|dB|00ded]

It is a fine line as to when to pull the plug on a fan forum, but clearly this post by CB was different. There have been hundreds of practice updates on here that have gone through each player's abilities and weaknesses. To date, I don't know when WSU has called to question it.

CB's post went beyond just describing the goings on and added a lot of unecessary opinion that bordered on slander. He made the coaching staff appear to be dangerous, uncaring and abusive - all things that are completely untrue. And it appears that CB is alone in his opinions as I have yet to see any posts from others at the practice that share his opinions. As scared as CB claimed to be just in the stands, maybe "cold blooded" isn't the best screen name. How about "Rainbow?" Rainbow is a nice screen name.

CB's post went beyond just describing the goings on and added a lot of unecessary opinion that bordered on slander.

Confrontational, demeaning, aggressive, physically demanding, constantly yelling, umm. no, that is not slander. That is an eye-witness account that would be supported by anyone that was there and is not unlike how 100's of other coaches run their practices across the country. I was just shocked by how physically intense it appeared to be. What's wrong with physically intense practices as long as nobody drops over dead? This is division 1 basketball.


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[C0|dB|00ded]

I understand that public opinion is not on my side.

At least you got something right.


What you and so many in society refuse to accept is that you cannot force your progressive beliefs in the private sector. There is a right and wrong and obviously we differ defining that.

Free speach is a progressive belief now? :(

People are trying to make this look like I broke into the administrations office and stole documents.. LOL

1) Curtains were open.

2) Several people were watching the practice.

3) I asked somebody if the practices were closed and while they didn't come right out and say they were open, they may as well have done so with their response.

4) Head coach acknowledged my presence by looking directly at me.

Perhaps somebody can 'larn me better on how I should act around a tight-lipped organization such as this.


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[C0|dB|00ded]

Re: A new Shocker forum?

i agree with cb, royal did the wrong thing by deleting that post.

With free speech comes responsibility. CB was irresponsible and there was a tone about it and was bordering on slander. He also clearly shown in his posts that he has an agenda against the present administration.

There goes that "slander" word again. I guess I am going to have to consider pursuing slander charges against those who continue to publicly accuse me of slander.

Agenda? Yeah, I have an agenda. I want more than 4 conference wins this year...


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[C0|dB|00ded]

My only concern is that WSU won two victories. They got the post deleted AND they will still close practices. Since the post was removed...they should honor the semi-open policy they were following prior to this incident.

Shockernet has become an arm of the institution.

Practices were always closed. I entered uninvited remember? :whistle:


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[WstateU]

Water break! :D

[C0|dB|00ded]

Water break! :D

This thread is fun! I am so glad it wasn't deleted or locked! :yahoo:


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[SB Shock]

Re: A new Shocker forum?

Agenda? Yeah, I have an agenda. I want more than 4 conference wins this year...

So how is being a blowhard going to change anything one way or the other?

[Maggie]

Furthermore, no one was reprimanded for it by me or any SN staff.

The SN staff should be reprimanded. This board has just crossed the line and has become a tool of the WSU athletic department. I understand that public opinion is not on my side. I understand that the admins of this forum have the only true "rights" as far as the content of the board. I just hope you understand the compromise you made.

I hope that you adhere to your professed principles in the future – in a much boarder context, of course.

I have always lived my principles. Past, present and future.

I am a bit nonplussed by your post.

Good for you. And I didn’t mean to confuse you.

If you require further explanation, please let me know.

[RussDaBus]

Water break! :D

This thread is fun! I am so glad it wasn't deleted or locked! :yahoo:


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...8)

What are you on?

[RoyalShock]

Shockernet has become an arm of the institution.

If that were the case, most criticism would be removed and the criticizers banned. But clearly, I'm not going to convince you otherwise.

I can't speak for those criticizing you here, but as far as I'm concerned, you aren't at fault for walking in to a practice you didn't know was closed. I hadn't considered removing your post until I was informed otherwise. I don't blame you making the post when you did or even the content, because it was done with the understanding that the practice was open. Whether the topic should remain changed upon the knowledge that it was indeed closed.

I don't feel that because someone didn't close the curtains, an AD staff member was uninformed or someone on the coaching staff didn't break away and kick you out that anything witnessed there is suddenly fair game for public dissemination. That doesn't mean you should be blamed for the incident. Others may feel differently, but that is their perogative. That's why I didn't call you out in my explanation. It did present an opportunity to remind posters to consider the effects of posting information that could be harmful, since that is how it was being viewed by some.