David Kyle's Atleticism

[Snapshot9]

Just from watching Kyle's highlight videos, I picked up how fast he is with his first step. He and Toure are going to be fun to watch. Toure reminds me of PJ the way he moves.

[SpanglerFan316]

With all of this talent, I have to wonder why most people here are not picking WSU to compete for the Valley title. Of course, this team will be young; however KSU's best players were pretty young last year and they won a NCAA tourney game. In addition to inexperience, I can make some conjectures:

1. Outside shooting.
We don't know if this team is a good perimeter shooting team. Syracuse in 2007 was an example of an athletic team that lost to us because we could shoot the three. Without an outside shot, this team will finish poorly, no matter how many dunks we get.

2. Defense.
We don't know how good of a defensive team we will have. Defense wins titles.

3. Fouls and free throw shooting.
The way the officials call the game will be important. We seem to be deeper than in the past and this will be nice. If we hit a low percentage of our FTs, we could be in trouble.

The potential problems I mentioned could occur in 2009-10 just as easily as in 2008-9. Assuming we can shoot reasonably well, defend adequately and hit our FTs, the only thing holding us back in 2008-9 is experience. If 1., 2. and 3. are not problems, I don't see any reason why we could not win the 2009 MVC tourney.

If we shoot like last year (i.e. 07-08 ), we will be in trouble this year and next.

[Hotel Paper]

With all of this talent, I have to wonder why most people here are not picking WSU to compete for the Valley title. Of course, this team will be young; however KSU's best players were pretty young last year and they won a NCAA tourney game. In addition to inexperience, I can make some conjectures:

1. Outside shooting.
We don't know if this team is a good perimeter shooting team. Syracuse in 2007 was an example of an athletic team that lost to us because we could shoot the three. Without an outside shot, this team will finish poorly, no matter how many dunks we get.

2. Defense.
We don't know how good of a defensive team we will have. Defense wins titles.

3. Fouls and free throw shooting.
The way the officials call the game will be important. We seem to be deeper than in the past and this will be nice. If we hit a low percentage of our FTs, we could be in trouble.

The potential problems I mentioned could occur in 2009-10 just as easily as in 2008-9. Assuming we can shoot reasonably well, defend adequately and hit our FTs, the only thing holding us back in 2008-9 is experience. If 1., 2. and 3. are not problems, I don't see any reason why we could not win the 2009 MVC tourney.

If we shoot like last year (i.e. 07-08 ), we will be in trouble this year and next.

Well, it would help if we had a Michael Beasley type player or two

[shockar25]

With all of this talent, I have to wonder why most people here are not picking WSU to compete for the Valley title. Of course, this team will be young; however KSU's best players were pretty young last year and they won a NCAA tourney game. In addition to inexperience, I can make some conjectures:

1. Outside shooting.
We don't know if this team is a good perimeter shooting team. Syracuse in 2007 was an example of an athletic team that lost to us because we could shoot the three. Without an outside shot, this team will finish poorly, no matter how many dunks we get.

2. Defense.
We don't know how good of a defensive team we will have. Defense wins titles.

3. Fouls and free throw shooting.
The way the officials call the game will be important. We seem to be deeper than in the past and this will be nice. If we hit a low percentage of our FTs, we could be in trouble.

The potential problems I mentioned could occur in 2009-10 just as easily as in 2008-9. Assuming we can shoot reasonably well, defend adequately and hit our FTs, the only thing holding us back in 2008-9 is experience. If 1., 2. and 3. are not problems, I don't see any reason why we could not win the 2009 MVC tourney.

If we shoot like last year (i.e. 07-08 ), we will be in trouble this year and next.

I didn't think that defense was a major problem with last year's team. As you say, poor shooting hurt us and the fact that we were pretty one dimensional due to our size limitations (injuries also didn't help at all). I think HCGM has established his coaching style even in the poor year last year that we had, as being very defensive-oriented and I don't see that changing.

In fact, I think in each season to come the defensive intensity should increase as our athleticism and talent increases. We should be able to start playing more man-to-man to compliment our zone because we should start matching up better with our opponents.

[SubGod22]

I'm not worried.

How we finish in the Valley depends on how quickly they come together and learn the system. The talent is there to win it all, or at least compete for the top spot.

[Born2Shock]

Defense to a player was not a problem last year, but wearing down at the end of games was, leading to defensive problems.

[Dan]

Just from watching Kyle's highlight videos, I picked up how fast he is with his first step. He and Toure are going to be fun to watch. Toure reminds me of PJ the way he moves.

I've seen Toure play 3 or 4 times. He does play similar to PJ, although not as strong underneath. PJ played like an undersized forward, Toure will play like a slashing and shooting true 2 guard. Not quite the shooting touch of Ogirri, but more athletic and ability to create shots. I think he and Kyles will make a great combo in the open court, although it is difficult figuring out how they will be on the court at the same time, at least early on. I can see Kyles getting more time at first due to his quickness and ability to adapt to D1 defense requirements. Toure is good defensively, but not quite the same foot speed as Kyles.

[SubGod22]

Just from watching Kyle's highlight videos, I picked up how fast he is with his first step. He and Toure are going to be fun to watch. Toure reminds me of PJ the way he moves.

I've seen Toure play 3 or 4 times. He does play similar to PJ, although not as strong underneath. PJ played like an undersized forward, Toure will play like a slashing and shooting true 2 guard. Not quite the shooting touch of Ogirri, but more athletic and ability to create shots. I think he and Kyles will make a great combo in the open court, although it is difficult figuring out how they will be on the court at the same time, at least early on. I can see Kyles getting more time at first due to his quickness and ability to adapt to D1 defense requirements. Toure is good defensively, but not quite the same foot speed as Kyles.

It's nice having insight from those in TX that have seen them play. Or at least one of them. I can't wait to catch some action this summer.

[SpanglerFan316]

I'm not worried.

How we finish in the Valley depends on how quickly they come together and learn the system. The talent is there to win it all, or at least compete for the top spot.

So you don't think we have any fundamental problems with our roster? In particular, do you think we will have good perimeter shooting from these players?

I was hoping to stimulate more of a discussion than "I'm not worried." A player's ability to leap or dunk is easy to determine. A player's "basketball smarts" is harder to determine; Matt had this but I don't think PJ played to his potential. Shooting success (or failure) in an actual game is tough to determine; Hatch has the best practice three point shot and Ellis has the best form and elevation for a jump shot but will they be our best shooters from 10 feet out?

With the right offensive scheme and combination, I think Hatch could be as effective as Sean was; however, Hatch cannot create his own shot. Ellis was coming on at the end but his last game was not against a good team. AJ might be great but this is just a guess right now. Without an offensive game, EO will be of limited effectiveness; does he have the potential to hit a "sky hook" or a 5-10 foot jump shot? I would like to see some analysis of the pros and cons of our roster.

[shockerfan]

Just from watching Kyle's highlight videos, I picked up how fast he is with his first step. He and Toure are going to be fun to watch. Toure reminds me of PJ the way he moves.

I've seen Toure play 3 or 4 times. He does play similar to PJ, although not as strong underneath. PJ played like an undersized forward, Toure will play like a slashing and shooting true 2 guard. Not quite the shooting touch of Ogirri, but more athletic and ability to create shots. I think he and Kyles will make a great combo in the open court, although it is difficult figuring out how they will be on the court at the same time, at least early on. I can see Kyles getting more time at first due to his quickness and ability to adapt to D1 defense requirements. Toure is good defensively, but not quite the same foot speed as Kyles.

It's nice having insight from those in TX that have seen them play. Or at least one of them. I can't wait to catch some action this summer.

Speaking of catching some action...I'm off Wednesday, anyone know if any pickup games will be going on? I know camps going on but wasn't sure if any pickup games would be squeezed in at some point. If so anyone planning on going?

[KC Shox]

This is an older pic, but this is what that would look like.

Sick elevation.



David was second to Willie Warren on the Texas team with 19 points.

What's so special about that? That's a ho-hum type of dunk. I mean, his feet aren't above the two guys' heads, now that would be sick!

:D

[BOBB]

Without an offensive game, EO will be of limited effectiveness; does he have the potential to hit a "sky hook" or a 5-10 foot jump shot?

I'm just guessing if he can do those two things consistently we won't have him for long. Let's hope he's that good.

[rrshock]

I'd like to see him do that in a game. :)

That for sure would make a Sportscenter Highlight wouldn't it?

[SubGod22]

I'm not worried.

How we finish in the Valley depends on how quickly they come together and learn the system. The talent is there to win it all, or at least compete for the top spot.

So you don't think we have any fundamental problems with our roster? In particular, do you think we will have good perimeter shooting from these players?

I was hoping to stimulate more of a discussion than "I'm not worried." A player's ability to leap or dunk is easy to determine. A player's "basketball smarts" is harder to determine; Matt had this but I don't think PJ played to his potential. Shooting success (or failure) in an actual game is tough to determine; Hatch has the best practice three point shot and Ellis has the best form and elevation for a jump shot but will they be our best shooters from 10 feet out?

With the right offensive scheme and combination, I think Hatch could be as effective as Sean was; however, Hatch cannot create his own shot. Ellis was coming on at the end but his last game was not against a good team. AJ might be great but this is just a guess right now. Without an offensive game, EO will be of limited effectiveness; does he have the potential to hit a "sky hook" or a 5-10 foot jump shot? I would like to see some analysis of the pros and cons of our roster.

Fair enough. Based on what I've seen/read/heard I'm not worried about perimeter shooting. I'll go ahead and give a little break down of how I see each player at this point.

Toure Murry - From what I've heard and read he can shoot from a ways out. Definitely has the athletic ability to finish at the rim, or above it. But his outside shot is supposed to be his strong suit early on. Of course he's young and will have some FR moments but he will see the court.

David Kyles - Is probably more ready to contribute from the start. Apparently he's got quicker feet and should provide some good D outside. Not quite the outside shooter that Toure is, but is adequate and his strength is playing off the bounce and getting inside. A good slasher that will hopefully improve his outside shot over the next few years.

Reggie Chamberlain - An athletic guard who has a sweet stroke. May be our best 3pt shooter and has some range. Also is unselfish and will be great at the point. May be a little on the small side for some but is quick enough to make up for any size he lacks. Has a good understanding of the game and will be a floor leader. And for RDR, he shoots well from the line.

Clevin Hannah - Is much like Chamberlain. VERY unselfish which probably makes him the first option at PG. But either are capable. Can definitely light it up as anyone who followed his year at Chipola knows. Hit some clutch shots in Hutch this year. Not sure if he's quite as quick as Reggie but he's by no means slow.

Graham Hatch - I think can have a good career here. He's not the most athletic or quick, but he's a smart kid who I think understands the game. A RS year last year would have been great for him after two years away but we couldn't afford that. He's got a great release and stroke from deep and in the right system I agree he could be very valuable.

AJ Hawkins - He'll replace PJ. From my understanding he has a better outside shot but may not be quite as strong. However, he may be a better finisher at the rim. Some have talked about his outside shooting being a weakness but I don't think it's that bad. He should be good enough to keep teams honest.

Aaron Ellis - We'll have to see how much improving he's done since the Lou but I sure hope that was a sign of things to come. But I think he can be a good outside shooter and cause major matchup issues. He can play either forward spot but I'd like to see him put the ball on the floor from time to time. I guess that's what I really want to see over the summer. Take the ball from the wing to the paint and either finish above the rim or hit a pull up. If he can do that then watch out!!!

Ramon Clemente - Will be Ramon Clemente. But I expect him to be more aggressive on offense than he was through most of last season.

Mantas Griskenas - Will probably be the primary backup to Ramon. But he brings some range to the PF spot and that could be nice. Especially when he can step out and clear some space for the seven footers. As long as he rebounds from the knee injury anyway...

JT Durley - The greatest inigma of them all. Who knows what to expect? If he buy in the sky is the limit. He has good range and can be a strong presence inside. JT could be a force on both ends if he wants to be. If he doesn't want to work though, there are others this year that will take his PT and he won't get near the minutes he did last year.

Garrett Stutz - He obviously as a FR will need to hit the weight room but from what I hear that won't be an issue. He has some decent offensive game already and I'm sure can play some D. And at his size just being there can disrupt an offense. He also provides us with a guy who can step out and hit which can really mess with opposing teams and clear the lane for others as well.

Ehimen Orukpe - A defensive presence who is more athletic that Garrett. Ehimen from what I'm hearing may not be quite as offensively challenged as some of us have imagined. Yes, he's raw and needs some work but I've heard he actually has decent touch and can step out a bit and hit a shot. The weight room should be his friend but he's not quite as thin as I'm sure many of us imagined.

[Ed Harley]

Good analysis. Thanks Sub!