What Is So Special About July 1, 1999?

[another shocker]

:highly_amused: Troll thread???? RdR a troll? No? Troll post, maybe? Damn good troll that gets solid posters liking his post. No? Did you mean you're the troll? After all, your post only received disagreeing posts and no likes.

MT inherited a 12-17 team that lost 3 starting seniors. Bottom line indeed.

so what lemming. why so emtional? insecure much? bring up turgeon, you know what happens. old troll rdr, still around, sounding like an old woman.

turgeon won't be there. -->>100% for sure. <<-- -->>he wouldn't want to be there either.<<-- antoine carr might be there. xavier mcdaniel might be there.

turgeon rings in the american conference , hunh? lol

[ShockingButTrue]

Randy "any halfway decent coach" Smithson

Huh?

[wufan]

Huh?

Randy had mucho JUCO success and took over a program from two coaches that had a 36% winning percentage over six years and finished with a 47% winning percentage. A baby step forward and mediocre coach.

[another shocker]

some of you guys overrate turgeon, the silver-spoon, a bit. he did not make wichita state the diamond in the rough.. the hidden gem.. that it is. wichita state was already that long before turgeon got here.

when these celebrations take place, and they will, it must be somebody lifetime-loyal to the shockers that represents. somebody like, say, xavier mcdaniel.

[Play Angry]

some of you guys overrate turgeon, the silver-spoon, a bit. he did not make wichita state the diamond in the rough.. the hidden gem.. that it is. wichita state was already that long before turgeon got here.

Wondering if you can point us to the post asserting this, or did you make it up just for fun?

One of my favorite threads on here was the one where you went apeshit about Paul Suellentrop being so anti-WSU. I may try to find it later.

[pogo]

some of you guys overrate turgeon, the silver-spoon, a bit. he did not make wichita state the diamond in the rough.. the hidden gem.. that it is. wichita state was already that long before turgeon got here.

when these celebrations take place, and they will, it must be somebody lifetime-loyal to the shockers that represents. somebody like, say, xavier mcdaniel.

Life time loyal. Like Ralph Miller whose likeness hangs from the rafters? Oh thats right he left to go to Iowa and then Oregon State. Not going to argue about who is worth and who isn't. MT left with a lot of people feeling like we were left standing in the middle of the high school gym in the spotlight dance with no partner. He brought the program up to a level that was at least attractive to HCGM. I don't think he leaves Winthrop to take the job at WSU pre MT. I would not trade our Head Coach for ANY other coach living or dead at this juncture of our history. On to the American.

[Topshock]

As long as we are handing out accolades, it seemed pretty clear after he left that Tad Boyle was perhaps the heart and sole of the Turgeon era.

[ShockTalk]

some of you guys overrate turgeon, the silver-spoon, a bit. he did not make wichita state the diamond in the rough.. the hidden gem.. that it is. wichita state was already that long before turgeon got here.

when these celebrations take place, and they will, it must be somebody lifetime-loyal to the shockers that represents. somebody like, say, xavier mcdaniel.

Maybe all this is semantics. What is "over-rated" or "under-rated"? What is "half way decent" vs "decent" coach? I think half way decent is pretty mediocre and probably cannot be a regular winner at higher levels. MT had 1 losing season, his first season, went to 3 NITs, and had a S16 at the Dance in 7 years that followed 10 years of darkness. Given the college basketball scene at the time, how many other teams not in the main 6 conferences were playing at that level? I would guess very few. To me, that says MT was most likely a decent, even above average coach during that time.

I believe very few here ever thought MT would be a long time Shocker. In fact, I was surprised he stayed for 7 years. Things changed when Tad left, but I'd have to give Mark credit for having him on the staff. As I said in another post here, I don't believe MT is HoF worthy. That in no way means I don't believe him to be a decent coach of whom I'm appreciative for what he did, at the time he did it. And no, I do not believe just any half way decent coach could do what he did.

[shockmonster]

Together, Mark and Tad were a good team. Both Tad and Mark have had some nice years after they left but neither of them have burned up their conference and been consistently nationally relevant.

[Play Angry]

One of my favorite threads on here was the one where you went apeshit about Paul Suellentrop being so anti-WSU. I may try to find it later.

There are some classics:

!!!

I wish I had a dollar for every time Trop downgraded Wichita State vis a vis BCS and all that bullsh*t. He's the worst about it around here, in the media (after Lutz, of course).

He's busy hard pumping up BCS schools.. his constant mantra.

What? You really have to ask? Maurice Evans escaped from Wichita State, his exact words, is about the last thing I read from him (a month or so ago). His whole thing, in nearly every article, is that Shockers are mid-major.

He's terrible.

Yeah, he puts in the hours, but he is bcs-centric like espn.

This is very obviously a rational poster who is good at framing detailed arguments with logical support.

[ShockTalk]

Together, Mark and Tad were a good team. Both Tad and Mark have had some nice years after they left but neither of them have burned up their conference and been consistently nationally relevant.

Agree with the first part of not burning up their conferences, but not sure about the second, for MT anyway. While making little noise in the Dance, MT has gotten there 7 of 10 years, including the last 3, and an NIT semifinal. He's won 24 or more games in 8 of 10 seasons.

[shockmonster]

Agree with the first part of not burning up their conferences, but not sure about the second, for MT anyway. While making little noise in the Dance, MT has gotten there 7 of 10 years, including the last 3, and an NIT semifinal. He's won 24 or more games in 8 of 10 seasons.

Yes. He's been ranked and in the NCAA at Maryland but hasn't gone far, and maybe I'm not remembering but his A and M teams weren't consistently ranked. How many times has he been Elite 8?

[ShockTalk]

Yes. He's been ranked and in the NCAA at Maryland but hasn't gone far, and maybe I'm not remembering but his A and M teams weren't consistently ranked. How many times has he been Elite 8?

ZIP. NADA. Only one S16.

For me, an above average coach will almost always have above average results. He's decent, above average, not great by any means. Couldn't tell you how the A&M teams were ranking-wise. I know he made the Dance all 4 years there.

[shockmonster]

ZIP. NADA. Only one S16.

For me, an above average coach will almost always have above average results. He's decent, above average, not great by any means. Couldn't tell you how the A&M teams were ranking-wise. I know he made the Dance all 4 years there.

For full disclosure, I tend to be a Turgeon fan while he was in Wichita. I think that the 4th rated WSU coach would be a fair place in the coaching ranks, and I give him credit for pulling up the WSU program. I like Tad too but I think neither of them are great coaches, but together, they were very good here, and Mark should be given respect for the hard work and passion to build up our program to the level he could. His Sweet 16, his 2006 MVC title when the Valley was very good, and ventures into the Top 10 and 20 rankings at WSU are nothing to take for granted. Neither is Smithson's Valley titles, Battle of New Orleans win, Elite 8, and ventures into the Top 5 on several occasions. But there is no doubt which coaches are 1-2 in Shocker history.

[Steeleshocker]

ZIP. NADA. Only one S16.

For me, an above average coach will almost always have above average results. He's decent, above average, not great by any means. Couldn't tell you how the A&M teams were ranking-wise. I know he made the Dance all 4 years there.

Wow, tough crowd. You do realize that the median basketball team would be 150 in RPI/KenPom and go to neither the NCAA or NIT.