2017-18 National Rankings

[ShockerFever]

I love the Shocks ranked #3 in the country, but I have to say it's ridiculous Arizona State isn't ranked #1 or #2 right now with their resumé. If WSU was undefeated with those wins we'd be pissed to be only #5.

I don’t think you understand how poll mechanics work.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

I love the Shocks ranked #3 in the country, but I have to say it's ridiculous Arizona State isn't ranked #1 or #2 right now with their resumé. If WSU was undefeated with those wins we'd be pissed to be only #5.

WSU started with a team expected to be great. ASU didn't. It is fair to give ASU a lot of love, but to still want to see a little more before you totally throw out all preconceived notions from the pre-season. The sample size is still somewhat small. ASU at #5 is perfectly fair to me. They started as KenPom #100 a month ago. #5 is a HUGE jump.

[Rlh04d]

You're making the argument that preconceived notions matter more than on-court results. Based on that, let's leave them around 20 and put Kansas back to top five. Sure, they haven't played well, but it seems like they should be good, and there's a limited sample size, so maybe we should just continue to assume they're excellent?

I don't get why anyone puts stock in preseason expectations once a season starts. What someone predicts is not more important than quantifiable results.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

So should all 0-1 teams be ineligible for the top 25?

I'm not advocating preseason be considered in March, or February, or even January for that matter. But early December? Yeah, probably should still be factored in.

[Stickboy46]

WSU started with a team expected to be great. ASU didn't. It is fair to give ASU a lot of love, but to still want to see a little more before you totally throw out all preconceived notions from the pre-season. The sample size is still somewhat small. ASU at #5 is perfectly fair to me. They started as KenPom #100 a month ago. #5 is a HUGE jump.

Also of note. They are still only 35 in kenpom...

[Cdizzle]

Also of note. They are still only 35 in kenpom...

It's worth noting that kenPom still has preseason stuff in until mid-January. But that 154 adjD also seems pretty real.

[WichitaStateGuy]

WSU started with a team expected to be great. ASU didn't. It is fair to give ASU a lot of love, but to still want to see a little more before you totally throw out all preconceived notions from the pre-season. The sample size is still somewhat small. ASU at #5 is perfectly fair to me. They started as KenPom #100 a month ago. #5 is a HUGE jump.

I totally agree with you, but just playing "devils" advocate-- are these polls for the best PROJECTED team in the country- based on preseason polls, projected future wins, injury updates etc- or the best team in the country right now? If they are based on the ladder, I feel like the argument could be made that perception matters more than reality.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Polls are a mixture of different voters using different criteria.

[AZ Shocker]

I have always believed the polls are simply a popularity contest that is another (major) tool in the recruiting wars. It's good to be in the polls. Especially Top-10...I mean Top-5....geez...I mean Top-3. :)

[Zubcut]

I don’t think you understand how poll mechanics work.

I understand perfectly how poll mechanics work. I know exactly why ASU is only ranked #5. But there is now enough sample size that some voters need to believe their eyes and vote based on results and not preconceived ideas from the preseason. One voter still has ASU ranked 18th, Kansas 6th and Xavier 10th. You can call that poll mechanics if you want. I call it stupid.
Actually, Xavier at 10 seems about right, but you can't have them six spots above an undefeated team with 4 top 50 KenPom wins that absolutely destroyed them on a neutral court. Now, Kansas at 6?!?!? Let's talk "poll mechanics".

[Cdizzle]

The sample size isn't really that big. There isn't that much connectivity for 351 teams. For example, should ASU really be ranked #1 because they beat KU? What if KU isn't that good? I'm not wholly opposed to your idea, but it's still a little difficult to say which wins are great wins.

[Rlh04d]

Why do we need such a large sample size to judge teams? I think a lot of this problem is the tendency to make polls carry over so much week to week. If the polls completely reevaluated the field week to week, it wouldn't matter. If KU isn't that good, and they lose again, you reevaluate ASU accordingly. Unfortunately, the way pollsters work, they tend to give an immediate bump based on perceived quality of the win, and don't drop teams unless they lose.

Also, we're a week shy of a third of the way through the season.

[Cdizzle]

Whoa, we can like comments now. This is great.

[WheatShock]

I understand perfectly how poll mechanics work. I know exactly why ASU is only ranked #5. But there is now enough sample size now that some voters need to believe their eyes and vote based on results and not preconceived ideas from the preseason. One voter still has ASU ranked 18th, Kansas 6th and Xavier 10th. You can call that poll mechanics if you want. I call it stupid.

That genius was also the target of the poll attacks column on cbs sports.

[Zubcut]

That genius was also the target of the poll attacks column on cbs sports.

I know. That's where I lifted it from. LOL

[Slykryck]

Is it surprising to anyone else that there is so much weight placed on the AP poll vs the coaches poll? With the understanding that neither truly does anything but give us something to debate over, what qualifications do these writers have over the coaches that actually scout, plan, and coach against these teams.

[AndShock]

Is it surprising to anyone else that there is so much weight placed on the AP poll vs the coaches poll? With the understanding that neither truly does anything but give us something to debate over, what qualifications do these writers have over the coaches that actually scout, plan, and coach against these teams.

Writers are paid to pay attention to college basketball as a whole, coaches are paid to coach.

[OregonShocker]

Writers are paid to pay attention to college basketball as a whole, coaches are paid to coach.

I think there's bias in both polls. Writers have their biases, maybe based on who/when they get interviews and articles; coaches want their opponents to be ranked high. I trust none. They're good for pride, but little else. Problem is, I think the Selection Committee pays too much attention to them in the end.

[Slykryck]

Problem is, I think the Selection Committee pays too much attention to them in the end.

Unless it’s Wichita State. I’ll never forget GGG in the press conference saying “Somehow twenty divided by four doesn’t equal ten.”

[SHOCKvalue]

Coaches poll is known for being completed in reality by DOBO’s, GA’s and such.

[ShockerFever]

I understand perfectly how poll mechanics work. I know exactly why ASU is only ranked #5. But there is now enough sample size that some voters need to believe their eyes and vote based on results and not preconceived ideas from the preseason. One voter still has ASU ranked 18th, Kansas 6th and Xavier 10th. You can call that poll mechanics if you want. I call it stupid.
Actually, Xavier at 10 seems about right, but you can't have them six spots above an undefeated team with 4 top 50 KenPom wins that absolutely destroyed them on a neutral court. Now, Kansas at 6?!?!? Let's talk "poll mechanics".

There's voters out there that have WSU 9th. Any complaints there?

The polls are an average of everybody's individual ballots anyway. Again, that's the way it has always been. You don't rank Boston College #1 for beating #1 Duke. You don't jump Arizona State 20 spaces for getting a couple of good wins.

Arizona State moving from #16 to #5 in one week is very, very fair. Arguing about everything else is just nitpicking.