2017-18 National Rankings

[ICT2CLT]

14 years under Bill Self and KU has never finished worse than 18th in KenPom (and that was his first year). His worst finish since was 13th.

What makes you think this will be the worst KU team Self has ever coached?

I honestly think this could be his worst year ever. This team is super shallow. Bill Self is a great coach and will probably pull out a pretty good regular season, but I wouldn't bet on them making it past the sweet 16. I'm not a Jayhawk hater.. that's just reality this year.

[Veritas]

I honestly think this could be his worst year ever. This team is super shallow. Bill Self is a great coach and will probably pull out a pretty good regular season, but I wouldn't bet on them making it past the sweet 16. I'm not a Jayhawk hater.. that's just reality this year.

Curious as to why you think Self is a "great" coach. Self is a good coach at a great program. He's underperformed imo.

[wufan]

Curious as to why you think Self is a "great" coach. Self is a good coach at a great program. He's underperformed imo.

Self did exceptionally well at Oral Roberts, Tulsa, and Illinois.

[ShockerPrez]

Even if it is the worst Bill Self team,



They will win the big 12.

[rrshock]

Even if it is the worst Bill Self team,



They will win the big 12.

More than likely. I know we hate to admit it, but even his worst team will better than a very large number of d1 schools.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Curious as to why you think Self is a "great" coach. Self is a good coach at a great program. He's underperformed imo.

Self did outstanding at his former jobs.
To my knowledge, Self has the highest average seed of any coach in the country over the last 14 seasons.
14 straight years as a top 4 seed, 10 of them as a top 2 seed.
He's got a NC, a runner-up, and 5 other Elite 8s. That's Elite 8 or better 50% of the time since arriving at KU.

You can argue he's not the #1 greatest coach of this generation (I would agree), but I can't understand anyone not having him really close to the top.

[ShockerPhi]

I mean at the beginning of the year.. top 5 rankings. Clearly the Shockers have been recognized AFTER completing great seasons/tournaments.

I know the offseason after our Final Four run, we were being ranked around 17th for the upcoming season. Sure it wasn't Top 5 stuff, but we've definitely been recognized nationally under Marshall. But I will agree, this is the most hype we've probably seen for an upcoming season so far.

[WSUwatcher]

I honestly think this could be his (Self's) worst year ever. This team is super shallow. Bill Self is a great coach and will probably pull out a pretty good regular season, but I wouldn't bet on them making it past the sweet 16...

Interesting, and I think The Flagship may well not make it to the second weekend either -- but not really related to Shocker basketball (which of course means it fits perfectly in ShockerNet's forum on WSU men's basketball).

I'm personally much more interested in whether this is going to be Marshall's BEST team. I think yes, although how that translates into record and results in a new and tougher league we'll just have to wait and find out. I'm certainly encouraged by the example of Creighton's first year in their current home; plus, I believe there's a great chance for a deep run come March (and April) as long as the Shocks stay healthy in key spots.

[ShockerPhi]

Self did outstanding at his former jobs.
To my knowledge, Self has the highest average seed of any coach in the country over the last 14 seasons.
14 straight years as a top 4 seed, 10 of them as a top 2 seed.
He's got a NC, a runner-up, and 5 other Elite 8s. That's Elite 8 or better 50% of the time since arriving at KU.

You can argue he's not the #1 greatest coach of this generation (I would agree), but I can't understand anyone not having him really close to the top.

The highlighted portion is probably the reason why people think he has under-performed, at least in the Tournament. If you're a Top 2 seed, you're basically expected to AT LEAST go to the Sweet 16. I'm not saying I agree with this, but I understand it.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

The highlighted portion is probably the reason why people think he has under-performed, at least in the Tournament. If you're a Top 2 seed, you're basically expected to AT LEAST go to the Sweet 16. I'm not saying I agree with this, but I understand it.

And that is why he isn't #1 of this generation, but come on, the overall resume is still incredible and puts him in the elite category.

[Veritas]

Self did outstanding at his former jobs.
To my knowledge, Self has the highest average seed of any coach in the country over the last 14 seasons.
14 straight years as a top 4 seed, 10 of them as a top 2 seed.
He's got a NC, a runner-up, and 5 other Elite 8s. That's Elite 8 or better 50% of the time since arriving at KU.

You can argue he's not the #1 greatest coach of this generation (I would agree), but I can't understand anyone not having him really close to the top.

Lack-of-National-ChampionshipS

Take away a lucky shot against Memphis and KU fans would be more restless. An inflated RPI and seediing due to a slightly better than mediocre B12 has not helped him in the Tournament. He's a solid coach--- but not a great coach.

[ShockingButTrue]

And that is why he isn't #1 of this generation, but come on, the overall resume is still incredible and puts him in the elite category.

We agree here. I'd put GGG, Coach K, and Calipari (among others) in front of him. No shame there.

[Shocker1976]

Lack-of-National-ChampionshipS

Take away a lucky shot against Memphis and KU fans would be more restless. An inflated RPI and seediing due to a slightly better than mediocre B12 has not helped him in the Tournament. He's a solid coach--- but not a great coach.

Take away a lucky performance by a cheating coach against Oklahoma and the Beakers lose another National Championship.

IMO Bill Self is the best coach the Beakers have had since Phog Allen - if he is not a great coach he is certainly an elite coach.

Do you agree with my parallel ranking of Beaker coaches during my lifetime?

1 - Phog Allen (greatest college basketball coach ever)
2 - Bill Self
3 - Roy Williams (a whiner almost on the same level as Jim Boeheim)
4 - Larry Brown (a cheater without peer)
5 - Ted Owens
6 - Dick Harp

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Lack-of-National-ChampionshipS

Take away a lucky shot against Memphis and KU fans would be more restless. An inflated RPI and seediing due to a slightly better than mediocre B12 has not helped him in the Tournament. He's a solid coach--- but not a great coach.

You do realize there are only 2 active coaches who have won multiple NCs?

[jdshock]

2 - Bill Self
3 - Roy Williams (a whiner almost on the same level as Jim Boeheim)

I can't describe the joy it brings me that Roy Williams was objectively a worse coach at KU than Bill Self and has then gone on to win three championships at North Carolina. Roy under performed severely with a couple of those teams at KU. As in, almost certainly he had the best team in the country and failed to get it done in March.

And now he's got three championships to his name. That's gotta ruffle some feathers.