2017-18 National Rankings

[another shocker]

does anybody outside of wichita remember this guy playing in the roundhouse 30+ years ago? blowing the roof of the joint, frenzied hysteria.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=N9rMn8CT&id=B99F7EDFEBB58587FE9AFDD61D6D9DDD7309CBD1&thid=OIP.N9rMn8CT9QFQMMcI4YhODQC_CJ&q=xavier+mcdaniel&simid=608040231039471560&selectedIndex=23&qpvt=xavier+mcdaniel

[another shocker]

hmm.. my links aren't working too well.

[WstateU]

They act like we're the New Kid in Town. Will everybody love us when we're not around?

There's talk on the street; it sounds so familiar.
Great expectations, everybody's watching you.
People you meet, they all seem to know you.
Even your old friends treat you like you're something new.
Johnny come lately, the new kid in town.
Everybody loves you, so don't let them down.

[another shocker]

life in the fast lane

[ShockAzs]

Talking down on our preseason ranking blows my mind. 3G has built a legit, National power!

We barely lost to UK in the dance last year, and are getting MAD respect from the media for it.

Don't you understand?! We're NOW in good loss territory, along with.... cough cough

[WSUwatcher]

AAC teams have familiarity with big crowds, but I doubt they've played many games in the atmosphere they will see in Koch.

As Patrick O'Bryant said years ago, "Even when it's quiet, it's loud" -- and if anything it's louder now (and with good reason) than it was back then.

[MadaboutWu]

IIRC we finished #8 in Kenpom and return all who played meaningful minutes other than Daishon so I think top 10 or top 5 is reasonable and much lower than 10 frankly is not.

Now once they lace them up in the fall last season's metrics don't matter.

[ArtVandalay]

It's harder to play 'chip on your shoulder' basketball when ranked in the top 10 and actually in a conference that cares.

[Kel Varnsen]

It's harder to play 'chip on your shoulder' basketball when ranked in the top 10 and actually in a conference that cares.

Oh, I'm sure Marshall will find a way to motivate our guys to do that haha.

[shockmonster]

It's harder to play 'chip on your shoulder' basketball when ranked in the top 10 and actually in a conference that cares.

While the conference leaders have been very good to us and a lot of people on the AAC board are too, there are still a significant of comments around the league who show they don't believe and we are still going to have to prove ourselves. Ggg just needs to quote those comments. We have not made it yet.

[bearcatmax]

IIRC we finished #8 in Kenpom and return all who played meaningful minutes other than Daishon so I think top 10 or top 5 is reasonable and much lower than 10 frankly is not.

Now once they lace them up in the fall last season's metrics don't matter.

That's one side of the argument. The other is that WSU went 1-4 against NCAAT teams last year.

I like Kenpom a lot and I think he provides a ton of interesting information, but I really do think it is better used to compare teams that play similar schedules/teams. That isn't to say Wichita State isn't/won't be a top 5 team next year, I just think Kenpom (or Sagarin, BPI, etc.) needs to be a piece of the puzzle rather than the main piece (as it is in WSU's case).

[JKLshocker]

That's one side of the argument. The other is that WSU went 1-4 against NCAAT teams last year.

I like Kenpom a lot and I think he provides a ton of interesting information, but I really do think it is better used to compare teams that play similar schedules/teams. That isn't to say Wichita State isn't/won't be a top 5 team next year, I just think Kenpom (or Sagarin, BPI, etc.) needs to be a piece of the puzzle rather than the main piece (as it is in WSU's case).

I think your concern is what bothers a lot of people, but Kenpom does take into account the difficulty of the schedule. His rankings are adjusted for competition. I don't know how he does this or how accurate it is, but his rankings aren't as far off as many would like to think, if they are off at all. An, for the record, his rankings usually hold true during the NCAA tournament which attests to their accuracy.

[Play Angry]

That's one side of the argument. The other is that WSU went 1-4 against NCAAT teams last year.

I like Kenpom a lot and I think he provides a ton of interesting information, but I really do think it is better used to compare teams that play similar schedules/teams. That isn't to say Wichita State isn't/won't be a top 5 team next year, I just think Kenpom (or Sagarin, BPI, etc.) needs to be a piece of the puzzle rather than the main piece (as it is in WSU's case).

While I agree that KenPom is best viewed as one of the strongest metrics in its universe while giving due consideration to the other quants, citing 1-4 vs. NCAAT is probably the weakest statistical example you could have come up with (versus citing, say, Sagarin or the other metrics you mention). NCAAT as a sample group has looser correlation to quality because of the bottom third of the bracket - pretending that 2 wins against RPI 30something Illinois State do not count in a universe where OOC home dubs against Texas Southern, UC Davis and Mount Saint Mary's would count illustrates the absurdity of the skew. You can make plenty of arguments that KenPom may have (slightly) overstated our rank last season but this is a poor choice.

Also, for accuracy's sake, we collected 2 wins against last year's field, not 1 - South Dakota State and Dayton.

[Cdizzle]

That's one side of the argument. The other is that WSU went 1-4 against NCAAT teams last year.

So, the other side of the argument is to use incorrect data in an attempt to support a poor point?

Edit: I see @Play Angry: has this covered.

[shockmonster]

That's one side of the argument. The other is that WSU went 1-4 against NCAAT teams last year.

I like Kenpom a lot and I think he provides a ton of interesting information, but I really do think it is better used to compare teams that play similar schedules/teams. That isn't to say Wichita State isn't/won't be a top 5 team next year, I just think Kenpom (or Sagarin, BPI, etc.) needs to be a piece of the puzzle rather than the main piece (as it is in WSU's case).

The problem with your view is that you are seeing the inexperienced Shockers in October when we played three of those games with only one returning starter (and some part time starters) from a team dominated by two Future NBA players. Kenpom is showing a total Year and how we dominated the teams in February by an average of 20 points after giving the ball to Landry as our team leader (in October he was an inexperienced RS Frosh). Your opinion is fine. We are used to being doubted but this year it isn't by the media (even former NBAers in the media) who know that in addition to KenPom we passed the eye test late in the year against good competition. I think it'll be hard but we will earn your respect. If we have some players like Landry, Shaq, Willis, and McDuffy continue to improve, we may even contend for Top 5-10 nationally and maybe a F4. Your underestimation is understood and accepted however ill-informed it might be.