"The Next time we see Kentucky vs. WSU, it can't be in NCAA Tournament" (CBSsports)

[ACW]

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/the-next-time-we-see-kentucky-vs-wichita-state-it-cant-be-in-ncaa-tournament/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

No excerpt, as the whole thing's worth reading, but one thing did catch my eye:

A team that rated top-10 in 2016-17 isn’t losing anybody for 2017-18.

Is that correct? :eek:

[Stickboy46]

http://www.cbssports.com/college-bas...medium=twitter
No excerpt. Whole thing's worth reading, but one thing did catch my eye: Is that correct? :eek:

All of that is correct.

[Shocker Mama]

CBS Sports, let me introduce you to Jerry Palm, who works for CBS Spo.....

[ACW]

And the thing is, a loss to you guys wouldn't (or shouldn't) be considered a "bad loss".

[Aargh]

I think the Committee knows they are only part-time people at seeding and listen to the Bracketology guys to give them a basis for their seedings. Palm was the most vocal and most heard bracketologist leading up to Selection Sunday.

Absolutely EVERY measure, including rpi had WSU better than a 10 seed. The only place where WSU was a 10 seed was Jerry Palm. Palm got tons of air time explaining the cherry-picked stat that WSU didn't have enough top-100 wins.

No consideration of improvement during the year. No consideration of recent results, just that the OOC schedule didn't turn out to be as good as expected and that top-20 type teams beat them in November and December.

[ShockingButTrue]

I think the Committee knows they are only part-time people at seeding and listen to the Bracketology guys to give them a basis for their seedings. Palm was the most vocal and most heard bracketologist leading up to Selection Sunday.

Absolutely EVERY measure, including rpi had WSU better than a 10 seed. The only place where WSU was a 10 seed was Jerry Palm. Palm got tons of air time explaining the cherry-picked stat that WSU didn't have enough top-100 wins.

No consideration of improvement during the year. No consideration of recent results, just that the OOC schedule didn't turn out to be as good as expected and that top-20 type teams beat them in November and December.

No wonder Lynn was so upset. The more I think about it the madder I get. Not because it was Kentucky. Not because we weren't in the Midwest. Not because we weren't a 4,5, or 6. But because apparently we are going to have to go 32-2 next year to get an 7 or 8 seed. I'm being totally serious.

[Aargh]

I'm not seeing 2 losses going into Selection Sunday next year - even if we get an invite to the AAC.

Shox demonstrated they are now a top-10 type team. We're going to lose some production out of our walkons, but I think Barney will be able to make up for some of Simon's production. Malone could have a breakout year.

[Shoxfan11]

Is anything really gonna change?

2013 NCAA Tournament: Advance to Final Four, give Louisville all they want and more

March 2014: Well Wichita State really hasn't played anyone. We know they were good last year but does that really matter? Do they really deserve a one seed?
2014 NCAA Tournament: Lose to Kentucky in a classic in which they played one of their best games in NCAA Tournament history

March 2015: Is Wichita State really that good? They lost Cleanthony Early
2015 NCAA Tournament: Beat Indiana and Kansas

March 2016: Is Wichita State really that good? Do they even deserve to be in the tournament? They lost to Northern Iowa twice!
2016 NCAA Tournament: Beat Vanderbilt, dominate an underseeded Arizona from beginning to the end, lose to Miami in an early morning game after playing the late night game on Thursday after flying in late the day before from Dayton

March 2017: Is Wichita State really that good? They haven't beaten anyone!

March 2018, probably: Is Wichita State really that good?

[WSUwatcher]

I think the Committee knows they are only part-time people at seeding and listen to the Bracketology guys to give them a basis for their seedings. Palm was the most vocal and most heard bracketologist leading up to Selection Sunday.

Absolutely EVERY measure, including rpi had WSU better than a 10 seed. The only place where WSU was a 10 seed was Jerry Palm. Palm got tons of air time explaining the cherry-picked stat that WSU didn't have enough top-100 wins.

Sorry to sound like JH4P, but that's just silly, Aargh. With nearly everyone else in the bracketology business mocking him out loud, there's no way Facepalm was the most prominent or influential voice. The real problem is that the Buffoon Committee's guidelines are ridiculously outdated, for reasons every other pundit and talking head pointed out, but they chose to follow them blindly anyway.

It wasn't Facepalm's propaganda that hurt WSU; it was the "garbage in, garbage out" system that the selectors accepted like the good university bureaucrats and company men they are.

[ShockingButTrue]

Sorry to sound like JH4P, but that's just silly, Aargh. With nearly everyone else in the bracketology business mocking him out loud, there's no way Facepalm was the most prominent or influential voice. The real problem is that the Buffoon Committee's guidelines are ridiculously outdated, for reasons every other pundit and talking head pointed out, but they chose to follow them blindly anyway.

It wasn't Facepalm's propaganda that hurt WSU; it was the "garbage in, garbage out" system that the selectors accepted like the good university bureaucrats and company men they are.

BUT, if they hadn't won the MVC championship indications are they wouldn't have been invited. Because hey, anybody could go 17-1 in the Valley with a winning margin of 16, or whatever it was.

It's always the Valley sucks. It's never the Shockers are pretty good. Or, "we just don't know how good they really are."

[Dan]

I'm getting tired of getting respect AFTER the tournament. Same thing every year. Yes, WSU is good. Yes, they have a great coach that gets the most out of his players - doesn't matter who is or is not on the team. Yes, they can play with anyone in the country. Is it that hard to understand?

[pogo]

It is just like"watcher" points out, until the committee changes its BS guidelines for seeding and uses more of a metric analysis teams like WSU will always get screwed. Jerry Palm even though I think he is a jerk called it just like the committee did with their ridiculous guidelines.

[shockmonster]

It is just like"watcher" points out, until the committee changes its BS guidelines for seeding and uses more of a metric analysis teams like WSU will always get screwed. Jerry Palm even though I think he is a jerk called it just like the committee did with their ridiculous guidelines.

Well Jim Schaus did meet with all the analyzers (I know Palm, and KenPom were there and I would guess Lunardi and other advanced analytics gurus too) and they discussed this issue. Pomeroy suggested they not use the advanced metrics to see who the at larges are but use them for seeding. I have not seen any reports on what they may or may not have agreed upon. But you would expect that Palm knew where they were going and probably maintains relationships with committee people. I'm pretty sure that Palm argues against our side. Next year is when they will supposedly consider advanced analytics.

[Stickboy46]

Well Jim Schaus did meet with all the analyzers (I know Palm, and KenPom were there and I would guess Lunardi and other advanced analytics gurus too) and they discussed this issue. Pomeroy suggested they not use the advanced metrics to see who the at larges are but use them for seeding. I have not seen any reports on what they may or may not have agreed upon. But you would expect that Palm knew where they were going and probably maintains relationships with committee people. I'm pretty sure that Palm argues against our side. Next year is when they will supposedly consider advanced analytics.

To be clear, Pomeroy said that they should not use his metric for selection because it doesn't value what the committee is looking to value

I think the problem is the committee is valuing the wrong things.

[BostonWu]

All the committee looks at is which top 50 teams you've played and beat and secondarily do you have any bad losses.

It's a rigged system when P5 systemically won't schedule.