Still not getting it...

[WSUwatcher]

Not quite media hate, but not exactly love, either -- hence the new thread.

ESPunditN's Myron Medcalf, in telling us the potential fatal flaw of the current top 25 teams, gives us a blurb on each:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18785200/why-your-team-not-going-final-four

Specifically, here's his very superficial comment about WSU:

21. Wichita State Shockers
The Shockers are stomping the Missouri Valley Conference in their attempt to woo the selection committee. In nonconference matchups against Michigan State, Louisville and Oklahoma State, however, they were outmatched.
Markis McDuffie is a good player, but the Shockers don't have Ron Baker and Fred VanVleet to lead them past the best teams in the country and return to the Final Four.

Why is it so hard to realize that the Shocks who played those early games in which they were "outmatched" are not the same team -- not by a long shot -- that we now see roaring down the stretch? Not all teams improve at the same rate, and it stands to reason that one trying to replace four key seniors, two of whom (the two who provided most of the guard play, which is so critical in college) are now in the NBA, might take a little longer to come around. WSU isn't stomping teams because they're running up the score; they're stomping them because they're that much better. And (a) McDuffie is hardly alone these days; plus (b) the last time WSU was in the Final Four, they weren't looking to Fred and Ron to lead them past the best teams in the country that time, either, although they certainly played their part.

Just not a very thoughtful effort by Medcalf.

(Someone may already have posted this elsewhere, and if so, my apologies; moderators, please feel free to consolidate in whatever way makes sense.)

[Steeleshocker]

I wouldn't make too big of a deal about this. The point of the article is to give a reason why each team won't make the final four. He did this for every team in the top 25.

Edit: and while I think WSU is certainly much improved, it's not impossible that we could see this team struggle against higher quality competition. And we certainly are lacking the proven leadership.

[ShockingButTrue]

Not quite media hate, but not exactly love, either -- hence the new thread.

Good post. If the media wants to better understand Valley's worthiness they need to go to a true expert, Bill Self.

[Zubcut]

I'd say it's stretching it to say WSU was "outmatched' by Mich. St, when they had an open shot in the air to tie the game with 2 seconds left. The Louisville game was also in doubt in the last 2 minutes. I guess you could say they were "outmatched" in the OSU game. By this logic Kansas was outmatched by West Virginia, and North Carolina was outmatched by Miami, Virginia, Indiana and Georgia Tech. So they obviously have no chance to get to the Final Four.

[CBB_Fan]

If anything I would take it as a compliment. If the only reason to think we aren't a Final Four team is our earliest games against tough competition, then the case is not very strong at all. Our weakness in November was that we had ~5,000 minutes of D1 experience and hadn't figured out had to succeed as a team without Fred and Ron yet, without a set starting line or a clear set of responsibilities.

Now we've literally doubled our D1 experience with >10,000 minutes, and every player has found their role. We know who should start, who should finish, and how each player can find a way to contribute. And as a result we've stopped trying to replicate the grind-out defensive style last year's team had and instead embraced the ball movement and 3PT shooting that defines this roster. You can say we don't match up talent wise with tougher programs, but that was before Landry and Conner took massive steps to become one of the best offensive duos in the country.

Frankly, with the way we've played over the last month we'd have taken our midseason tournament. So if that is your point of evidence against us going to Phoenix, consider me unconvinced. And if they think we need Fred and Ron to lead us to the Final Four, maybe they should take out their history books and realize neither Fred nor Ron were the leaders during our Final Four run. We didn't need All-Americans then, we needed a team that peaked at the right point and played as a team.

[ROOT ANGRY!]

I wouldn't make too big of a deal about this. The point of the article is to give a reason why each team won't make the final four. He did this for every team in the top 25.

Edit: and while I think WSU is certainly much improved, it's not impossible that we could see this team struggle against higher quality competition. And we certainly are lacking the proven leadership.

I beg to differ about lacking proven leadership. Watch the MoState game again, see Shamet answer every MSU attempt to get back in the game with a dagger play
Reminded me of fred, ron and tekele against alabama and tennessee in '14
Our leadership is emerging before our eyes, we just need to embrace it

[Shocker85]

The fact of the matter is that these network guys can't trouble themselves to take the time to just #WatchUs. Period. They are shills for the P5 conferences, their influence and $$$.

Eff 'em all.

[Dave Stalwart]

Wait timeout... so anytime a team loses a close game by 5 points or 10 points, that means they were outmatched? That means KU was severely outmatched by West Virgina in that 85-69 loss. What about Kentucky's 20 point loss to Florida? UCLA's loss to Arizona?

The one time WSU was truly outmatched by anyone, it was Oklahoma State. I'll give you that. That was hard to watch. If you are going to say we were outmatched, at least get the facts straight. According to this guy, KU and Kentucky don't have the pieces to make it back to a Final 4 this year because they were outmatched in a game once this season...

[Dave Stalwart]

nm

[Steeleshocker]

I beg to differ about lacking proven leadership. Watch the MoState game again, see Shamet answer every MSU attempt to get back in the game with a dagger play
Reminded me of fred, ron and tekele against alabama and tennessee in '14
Our leadership is emerging before our eyes, we just need to embrace it

I don't disagree that we're starting to see that leadership emerge, but until we see it against tournament caliber teams I'm not going to call it "proven"

[T.VuOP]

Actually we lost to talented teams. That's why people think we are unproven. Of course they know we stomped teams in the MVC, but this didn't prove anything. Therefore to them, our first test would be the MVC tournament.

[ShockerPhi]

Seriously guys, the point of this article was just to have some fun saying "why your team isn't going to the final four". Like @Steeleshocker: said, he just chose every Top 25 team and tried to find weaknesses. Sure, his reasonings were probably a bit off, but come on. I'm sure he swung and missed on other teams and made some assumptions. It was just for some fun, pre-tourny engagement. Lighten up a little.

I think we've all had a little too much Jerry Palm in our lives.

[WSUwatcher]

If the only reason to think we aren't a Final Four team is our earliest games against tough competition, then the case is not very strong at all. Our weakness in November was that we had ~5,000 minutes of D1 experience and hadn't figured out had to succeed as a team without Fred and Ron yet...

That's the key, Fan. Of course Medcalf was just looking, with the stuff about team weaknesses, for a hook for his story. But, as you say, the real point about WSU is that there's good reason to believe their November shakiness against strong opposition is a weakness no more. So if that's the worst he can come up with, maybe we should start making our travel plans for some April basketball.

Personally, I think WSU was outmatched against Louisville and Oklahoma State. The game against Sparty, despite the big deficit, the Shocks could easily have won and maybe should have -- and that was then. This is now, and I for one would be delighted to see WSU face MichSt again, because I believe that if a rematch were a mismatch at this point, it would more likely be with WSU as the outmatcher rather than the outmatchee. Even the Louisville game got moderately close for a while, although in that one I'd have been surprised if the Shocks had caught up; and I don't think WSU would get so far behind or struggle so to score if they played again.

Obviously the odds are against WSU reaching the Final Four, just as they're against pretty much any given team -- it's tough to win four in a row versus, usually, some fairly stiff competition. But I like the way this group is coming along, and I can't help wondering what Medcalf would have picked as the Shocks fatal flaw if he hadn't looked back to those early games. No doubt he'd have found one; his story required it -- but what?

[shoxlax]

Okie State played us when Shaq was on one leg. Not that we would have won but we know how much better we are when he is on the floor and healthy. I have not heard one second of commentary on that injury by the pundits who like to use the comparative score simpleton analysis

[ShockingButTrue]

Okie State played us when Shaq was on one leg. Not that we would have won but we know how much better we are when he is on the floor and healthy. I have not heard one second of commentary on that injury by the pundits who like to use the comparative score simpleton analysis

Landry and Conner both played 17 minutes against the Pokes. Daishon played 30. That wouldn't happen today.