2016-2017 Is A Rebuilding Year

[Kung Wu]

The answer to why:

a) the Shockers got smoked against Oklahoma State (and Louisville, Michigan St.),
b) they will drop unexpected games to more MVC teams than we think,
c) our expectations for this season are too high,
d) it really isn't a coaching issue (unless we believe FVV and Baker should have played less minutes the last couple of years)

Here is a comparison of the total minutes of NCAA experience between our guards and OSU's.

name	min against shox	NCAA games	avg NCAA minutes	total NCAA minutes
Carroll	33	63	20	1260
Forte	26	113	29	3277
Evans	24	32	28	896
Averette	19	11	15	165
Hammonds	17	98	15	1470
Dziagwa	15	10	10	100
Waters	13	11	21	231
name	min against osu	ncaa games	avg ncaa minutes	total ncaa minutes
Smith	30	12	19	228
Frankamp	17	67	14	938
Shamet	17	15	21	315
Reaves	9	11	13	143
Simon	5	72	4	288

If you compare the top 5 guards of each team based on minutes played last night it would be:
7,068 minutes for OSU to
1,912 minutes for WSU

I'm not going to do the same chart with Louisville and Michigan State -- I suspect the result would probably not be as drastic, but who knows?

The point is, ours is clearly a young squad and as such this is a rebuilding year, no matter how much we wanted to believe it's not.

Our guards are simply not experienced enough to make in game adjustments on the fly against very experienced big time guards. A halftime adjustment can happen, but even that will be suspect unless it happens to be defensive sets they have had enough time to really get coordinated on in practice.

Yet, even with our serious NCAA inexperience at the guard positions, we could still be dangerous toward the end of the season as our guards get more experience. It might just be at the NIT, but let's not throw in the towel just yet. And if it is the NIT, there is no shame in that given our youth and inexperience. We need to support this squad while they mature, difficult as it is to watch when it looks like the train wreck it does against experienced guards.

[60Shock]

Kung WU, an excellent analysis.

[shoxlax]

Kung, how dare you sprinkle reasoned analysis into the dark abyss this board has become the last 18 hours!

Damn you anyway.

[forevershockerfan]

Great job Kung Wu. Last Season, we could put our 2 guards in experience and production against most any team in the Country. As a Junior, Baker was referred to as a "bad, bad boy" out of respect by one of the starting twin guards on the Kentucky team after the only loss we suffered that whole Season. Fred broke our Shocker assist career record. Talk about solid NCAA experience, Bake and FVV brought that to our table. I do like our 4 guards but agree they are on a learning curve and will get better as we go, especially later this Season and even more so next Season.

[ShockTalk]

I like your where your coming from, but you included no wings (3s) for the Shox, yet had a total of 147 minutes for OSU. That means, some in that group even played the PF last night.

Your point is made just referring to Evans, Forte, and Averette who played most of the PG and SG minutes against the Shox and have 4338 NCAA minutes. Evans as a soph has almost as minutes as CF who has far and away the most Shocker experience.

I did look at "NCAA experience minutes" after the Michigan St game, and yes, it's not as pronounced a difference, especially with Michigan St. However, I believe most everyone will look at McDuffie, Shamet, Smith, Reaves, and Willis as very key to any success we have and only McDuffie had any real NCAA minutes prior to this year.

[DUShock]

I still think this crew is soft and needs some MTXE but do agree with your general assessment.

[The 'hut]

In spite of DUShock's moniker, I would agree. I believe the biggest challenge is in the hands of the strength and conditioning staff. Some of these boys are still developing into young men. Shy of a Russian plot to chemically alter their status in a few months, time and hard work will be the only path. You can be tough, but a bigger or faster tough usually wins out.

[AZ Shocker]

I still think this crew is soft and needs some MTXE but do agree with your general assessment.

Weird not seeing us getting the majority of loose balls. And just as weird not getting as many steals as we're used to seeing. What is this "softness" we're witnessing this year? Come on young group...hurry up and catch that MTXE spirit! Finals are over...DO IT!!!!!!!

[Kung Wu]

I like your where your coming from, but you included no wings (3s) for the Shox, yet had a total of 147 minutes for OSU. That means, some in that group even played the PF last night.

Yes, several of their guards play F when they go small ball but are still listed as guards so I am guessing are primarily 3s. The only one I should have left off is Hammonds, as OSU does not list him as a guard, but another site I used did (probably in error). It will change the final total for OSU quite a bit, but they would still have more than double the minutes in experience from their platoon of guards.

[ShockTalk]

Yes, several of their guards play F when they go small ball but are still listed as guards so I am guessing are primarily 3s. The only one I should have left off is Hammonds, as OSU does not list him as a guard, but another site I used did (probably in error). It will change the final total for OSU quite a bit, but they would still have more than double the minutes in experience from their platoon of guards.

As I said in my post to you: I like your where your coming from and Your point is made just referring to Evans, Forte, and Averette who played most of the PG and SG minutes against the Shox and have 4338 NCAA minutes.

No, several of their "guards" most always play the 3 (or even the 4). OSU always plays small. For the year, the 6 players on their roster listed as F by ESPN (includes Hammonds) plays 66.4 mpg. Those same bigs actually played 70 minutes (40 at C and 30 at PF) against WSU. So, they played bigger than average against us.

The game Evans did not play, Averette played 37 and was the leading scorer for OSU against Tulsa. OSU does have another 1 or 2 guard that has played in 7 games this season, but did not play against WSU. Those four 1 and 2s have averaged 71.9 mpg.

OSU has another "G" that also mostly plays the 3, but did not play against us. Carroll, Waters, Dziagwa, and Shines have played 62.5 mpg. They play all 40 minutes of the 3, 14+ mpg at PF, and 8+ at guard (1 or 2). To keep those players in your "group", you would need to add Brown and McDuffie, who play mostly the 3, but also the PF and SG. That adds almost another 2100 NCAA minutes and reduces your point.

[ShockerPrez]

The good thing is that we all know they can and will get better.

Maybe we'll get lucky and they won't learn that they are supposed to lose in St Loo. And then get a chance to do what WSU do in the dance.

[asiseeit]

I don't like excuses and I don't like talking about this year
being a rebuilding year. Every year we play to win the
conference, the tournament, and go dancing. This year is
NOT an exception. We had a terrible game in which the
entire team and staff completely forget how to play
together. I still think we have the players to achieve a
great deal THIS season. I fully expect this team to go
dancing in March and nothing less.

[GreatWhiteBuffalo]

Been away from the site so far this year...so it won't look good, but I need to vent. I was at the game. It was awful. I haven't seen a WSU team so roundly beaten in ages. I don't even know where to start. EVERY aspect of the program was under the microscope and it ALL looked bad. I thought, for about 20 seconds, that Wichita was going to make it a game when they got it to 9...but alas, they couldn't muster anything else. I am flummoxed. Crappy sports weekend...dang Chiefs! LOL

[Eric]

See, for me, the Chiefs shitting themselves greatly softened the blow of the Shox debacle.

[shockmonster]

I don't like excuses and I don't like talking about this year
being a rebuilding year. Every year we play to win the
conference, the tournament, and go dancing. This year is
NOT an exception. We had a terrible game in which the
entire team and staff completely forget how to play
together. I still think we have the players to achieve a
great deal THIS season. I fully expect this team to go
dancing in March and nothing less.

Last thing you said is fine. But we do need to learn how to respond and win when we play physical teams who hit us in the mouth. We didn't match it. We missed 3s. They hit theirs. We have hung in against other talented teams but they weren't as physical as OSU. We can still go to the Tournament but may be a year away from making our mark.