Time to start selling the student tickets

[Stickboy46]

First of all, I generally agree with you. Even though I think it goes much deeper than that. Using Tulsa as an example, I know it was scheduled a few years in advance, but I am just using as an example. If a person who puts together our schedule simply looks at Tulsa and says they had 70 RPI last year and does no further research, after losing 9 seniors, etc. that is a very poor job done by them. Perhaps we need to start running algorithms or something to get a better understanding of who will improve their standing from the year before.

Either way, that is besides my point. My point is that this year is not some sort of anomaly. This has been a consistent epidemic since the time Creighton left the conference. The excuse is the same every year.

As for comparing us to KU, I haven't watched enough of their games to focus on whether there are consistently empty seats for those games. I would expect that there are. If not, props to KU, there is a reason they are a Blue Blood. Speaking of another blue blood, UCLA, or almost every other college basketball team out there, have you watched their games? The crowd we put forth for the likes of Maryland Easternshore, etc. is pretty admirable actually. Almost every team in the country struggles to pack the house for their cupcakes. If anyone saw any of the Minnesota @ Florida State game in the Big10/ACC Challenge, they would have seen what embarrassing looks like. If we even managed to get the likes of a Minnesota caliber squad into Koch, I have full confidence the fans would come out in force. Unfortunately instead, we get almost nothing but cup cakes.

"Minnesota Caliber Squad" ... Minnesota was an RPI of 264 last year. Minnesota is not a good game. I think this is the problem. There is a mismatch of expectation. Students seems to expect "big name" teams from P5 conferences no matter how good or bad they are. The schedule is set up to get quality wins out of teams willing to come to Koch Arena, one way or another (buy game or Home/Home). That doesn't always line up to the big name teams. The big name teams that will actually help our RPI and chances at the post season wont step foot in Koch (see Utah/OSU/OU agreeing to IBA). The teams that are "big name" that will come here won't help us and in fact will hurt us.

[ShockerFever]

First of all, I generally agree with you. Even though I think it goes much deeper than that. Using Tulsa as an example, I know it was scheduled a few years in advance, but I am just using as an example. If a person who puts together our schedule simply looks at Tulsa and says they had 70 RPI last year and does no further research, after losing 9 seniors, etc. that is a very poor job done by them. Perhaps we need to start running algorithms or something to get a better understanding of who will improve their standing from the year before.

Either way, that is besides my point. My point is that this year is not some sort of anomaly. This has been a consistent epidemic since the time Creighton left the conference. The excuse is the same every year.

As for comparing us to KU, I haven't watched enough of their games to focus on whether there are consistently empty seats for those games. I would expect that there are. If not, props to KU, there is a reason they are a Blue Blood. Speaking of another blue blood, UCLA, or almost every other college basketball team out there, have you watched their games? The crowd we put forth for the likes of Maryland Easternshore, etc. is pretty admirable actually. Almost every team in the country struggles to pack the house for their cupcakes. If anyone saw any of the Minnesota @ Florida State game in the Big10/ACC Challenge, they would have seen what embarrassing looks like. If we even managed to get the likes of a Minnesota caliber squad into Koch, I have full confidence the fans would come out in force. Unfortunately instead, we get almost nothing but cup cakes.

Creighton leaving is irrelevant to the discussion. They had nothing to do with our home scheduling or our ability to be loud and pack it full. Sorry.

Speaking of ignorant, Minnesota is nothing. I wouldn't be anymore excited for them than I was for SLU last night.

The problem is we aren't comparing ourselves to anyone else. A trend is developing. We never had crowds this sparse or gameday atmosphere this morgue-like in the last 5-10 years. Things are changing and not for the better. And it's now gotten to the point where players and coaches are talking to the media about it. That hasn't happened before.

[ShockdaWorld]

I wonder if ShockerNet could make any kind of a difference as far as how many seats are empty in the general admission section (it's not really the student section above the band, since the students don't use it). If everybody told all the friends they could think of, posted on FB or Twitter or whatever social media platform that there WILL be tickets available on said day for said game, would it do any good? Fill any more seats with people that hadn't even considered the thought that they could get into the game? Or would it be an exercise in futility? I'm not saying that everyone should or would put something like that out there, but what could it really hurt?

[Heinro]

I will address both of you without quotes.

First of all, "Minnesota Caliber" had nothing to do with the fact it was freaking Minnesota. More the fact that at the time they went to Tallahassee, they were 6-0, had decent wins, and their numbers didn't look bad. Currently Minnesota sits at #10 in the RPI. I think Minnesota may be potentially at or near the bubble discussion this year. You are simply lying to yourself if you think you enjoyed SLU as much as you would Minnesota. You simply cannot judge a team based on what their RPI was last year.

Also, he was comparing, so please pay careful attention to your reading. He said regarding KU "You don't see this issue for them." Even though after rereading his comparison, I attacked it in a way he wasn't addressing it. Comparing our students vs KU students is a joke, entirely different student populations, let alone the fact that theirs is multiple times bigger.

As for Creighton leaving, the only reference was as a comparison of the timeline. For the last 5 years, our Koch arena schedule has, at the very least, remained very subpar. I reference it only to show that the argument that these schedule deals are set years in advance, we do the best we can, etc. is crap, it is the same excuse every year. If it isn't working, do something else. I don't have some unrealistic expectation of getting teams in here, but I also don't think we are trying to change what has been the status quo.

[Cdizzle]

So, for the last 5 years, the Koch arena schedule has not met your standards.

I might point out, that for the last 5 years, WSU has gone to the NCAA tournament.

Given that WSU plays in a terrible league and has only received the auto-bid, that's pretty baller.

[Heinro]

So, for the last 5 years, the Koch arena schedule has not met your standards.

I might point out, that for the last 5 years, WSU has gone to the NCAA tournament.

Given that WSU plays in a terrible league and has only received the auto-bid, that's pretty baller.

This is completely off point. No one questions the product we put on the court.

[Cdizzle]

This is completely off point. No one questions the product we put on the court.

It is the only point. The schedules they have been putting together have been enough to get WSU in the tournament.

[Stickboy46]

I will address both of you without quotes.

First of all, "Minnesota Caliber" had nothing to do with the fact it was freaking Minnesota. More the fact that at the time they went to Tallahassee, they were 6-0, had decent wins, and their numbers didn't look bad. Currently Minnesota sits at #10 in the RPI. I think Minnesota may be potentially at or near the bubble discussion this year. You are simply lying to yourself if you think you enjoyed SLU as much as you would Minnesota. You simply cannot judge a team based on what their RPI was last year.

Also, he was comparing, so please pay careful attention to your reading. He said regarding KU "You don't see this issue for them." Even though after rereading his comparison, I attacked it in a way he wasn't addressing it. Comparing our students vs KU students is a joke, entirely different student populations, let alone the fact that theirs is multiple times bigger.

As for Creighton leaving, the only reference was as a comparison of the timeline. For the last 5 years, our Koch arena schedule has, at the very least, remained very subpar. I reference it only to show that the argument that these schedule deals are set years in advance, we do the best we can, etc. is crap, it is the same excuse every year. If it isn't working, do something else. I don't have some unrealistic expectation of getting teams in here, but I also don't think we are trying to change what has been the status quo.

Yet again, you can't look retroactive. Sure you look like you are correct (though quoting RPI this early in the year is dumb), but there is zero reason to expect that Minnesota would go from ~250 RPI to a respectable team. They still probably wont make the tourney. And no I'm not lieing when I say that WHEN THE SCHEDULE WAS MADE, i would be more excited about St. Louis than Minnesota.

You can make excuses all you want. We have a nationally relevant Basketball program that 95% of schools would kill for. YOU ARE THERE TO WATCH YOUR HOME TEAM SHOCKERS. You aren't there to watch the other team. It's sad, we get more opposing students coming to our road games to see us, than we do our own students at home games. This 100% on the students IMO.

[1972Shocker]

I don't think this phenomenon is limited to just men's basketball or to just WSU.

In October I made the following comment about WSU Volleyball attendance:

The last 10 years from 2006 through 2015 represent WSU's top 10 attendance averages with 2006 at #10 with an average attendance of 2,083. The Shocks peaked at 3,177 in 2008. 2014 was also a big year at 3,078. However, we had a big drop (27%) in 2015 to 2,261 and have dropped another 10% this year. This with no drop off in quality of the product. The Valley debuted its Volleyball ESPN3 broadcasts on September 10, 2015. Coincidence?

I wonder if some of the same thing is in play for men's basketball. With so many games now available either on TV or digitally streamed how many folks are choosing to stay home and watch the game on their HD big screen or even on their other electronic devices from the comfort of their easy chair and skip the hassle of dealing with parking, weather and extremely overpriced concessions. Yeah, they are missing a lot of the game atmosphere but that doesn't float everyone's boat or is compelling enough for many to venture out. No doubt there are other factors as well but that nice cushy seat in front of the HD big screen is a pretty decent seat.

This may, or may not, explain some of the student apathy. Perhaps with Ron gone a lot of the coeds have decided that Conner Frankamp is just not the same thing. The thing is that WSU has really never been a student-centric or a student-dependent fan base. In fact, student attendance at all other Shocker sports events is pretty much non-existent, including Volleyball that kind of has the stage to itself in the fall.

No doubt there are a variety of other reasons as well that specific fans my have. Quite frankly not many are as gung-ho and as dedicated as those who post on ShockerNet.

As far as the in-game atmosphere it's just hard to become too engaged when the average margin of victory in the 6 home games has been 34.5 points with the closest being the 27 point win over Tulsa. The average half-time lead has been 21.3 points in those 6 games. Hopefully, the crowd will be there when the Shocks really need them.

I do think the crowd missed a good opportunity to show their BBIQ for the defense when 3G encouraged it in the first half against St. Louis. That would have been a perfect time for the low brass cheer to be played throughout the TO. Unfortunately seems like WSU has bills to pay and a script to stick with.

[Ta Town Shocker]

Correct me if I'm wrong but opening extra tickets up for sale to the public won't fill the seats when there are still reserved tickets around the remainder of the arena not selling. Also for the games at Koch, Stub hub tickets can be bought before the game for $10 so why would anyone pay more for tickets through the university.

[shockmonster]

While I agree with you that teams are not beating down anyone's door begging to come to Koch, I do think that it is not impossible to schedule more competitive teams. This would mean that we accept the risk of losing a game on our home floor, but something has to change or interest will only continue to diminish. Unlike many other teams we do not have the luxury of having several good teams come here after we get into conference play, so the non-con must provide that meaningful fan experience and right now this is just not happening for many.

Have you researched our non-conference RPI the past 2-3 years. My understanding is that last year it was a 27. A 27 non-con RPI is not a weak schedule. The past few years, we have had good teams from Seton Hall, Tulsa, Nevada, and some others who were good teams. Then we had some bad teams we thought would be good like UNLV but we didn't have bad schedules. Or so I thought.

[shockerfanmas]

I don't think this phenomenon is limited to just men's basketball or to just WSU.

In October I made the following comment about WSU Volleyball attendance:

The last 10 years from 2006 through 2015 represent WSU's top 10 attendance averages with 2006 at #10 with an average attendance of 2,083. The Shocks peaked at 3,177 in 2008. 2014 was also a big year at 3,078. However, we had a big drop (27%) in 2015 to 2,261 and have dropped another 10% this year. This with no drop off in quality of the product. The Valley debuted its Volleyball ESPN3 broadcasts on September 10, 2015. Coincidence?

I wonder if some of the same thing is in play for men's basketball. With so many games now available either on TV or digitally streamed how many folks are choosing to stay home and watch the game on their HD big screen or even on their other electronic devices from the comfort of their easy chair and skip the hassle of dealing with parking, weather and extremely overpriced concessions. Yeah, they are missing a lot of the game atmosphere but that doesn't float everyone's boat or is compelling enough for many to venture out. No doubt there are other factors as well but that nice cushy seat in front of the HD big screen is a pretty decent seat.

This may, or may not, explain some of the student apathy. Perhaps with Ron gone a lot of the coeds have decided that Conner Frankamp is just not the same thing. The thing is that WSU has really never been a student-centric or a student-dependent fan base. In fact, student attendance at all other Shocker sports events is pretty much non-existent, including Volleyball that kind of has the stage to itself in the fall.

No doubt there are a variety of other reasons as well that specific fans my have. Quite frankly not many are as gung-ho and as dedicated as those who post on ShockerNet.

As far as the in-game atmosphere it's just hard to become too engaged when the average margin of victory in the 6 home games has been 34.5 points with the closest being the 27 point win over Tulsa. The average half-time lead has been 21.3 points in those 6 games. Hopefully, the crowd will be there when the Shocks really need them.

I do think the crowd missed a good opportunity to show their BBI for the defense when 3G encouraged it in the first half against St. Louis. That would have been a perfect time for the low brass cheer to be played throughout the TO. Unfortunately seems like WSU has bills to pay and a script to stick with.

Best response yet! It seems we have a lot of people that just don't understand this and think that every game should be sold out with every single person up on their feet cheering and hooting and hollering like idiots for the entire game. Mark me in the crowd that would rather sit home and enjoy the game from the comfort of his cushy couch on his big screen tv where he can see the whole game, instead of being blocked out by a bunch of morons standing up and cheering and being obnoxious the entire game. That, and dealing with parking and all that jazz. no thanks, I don't do big crowds, and I'm just fine. Why can't people understand that not everybodys life is devoted to going to a game and cheering a team on.

[Stickboy46]

Best response yet! It seems we have a lot of people that just don't understand this and think that every game should be sold out with every single person up on their feet cheering and hooting and hollering like idiots for the entire game. Mark me in the crowd that would rather sit home and enjoy the game from the comfort of his cushy couch on his big screen tv where he can see the whole game, instead of being blocked out by a bunch of morons standing up and cheering and being obnoxious the entire game. That, and dealing with parking and all that jazz. no thanks, I don't do big crowds, and I'm just fine. Why can't people understand that not everybodys life is devoted to going to a game and cheering a team on.

You aren't a very good fan then .. seriously.... You sitting at home on your couch sure shows those players how much you appreciate their effort.

[Wild Heiny]

Are you related to the old poster ABC by any chance?

Anyways, there seems to be a bit of disconnect here among the fanbase. You have a segment that continues to not understand the fact that these games were scheduled years in advance and going into the season a lot of these teams were supposed to be adequately good, traditionally good, even really good. And yet this segment of the fanbase still expects WSU to predict which of these traditional powers won't tank during the year and expect P5 schools to come trotting into Koch on a nightly basis (they are at IBA though). So once again, what games are you wanting on the schedule at Koch that have been passed by Marshall and company? Please enlighten us and list them.

With responses like these, it's no wonder the place sounds like a morgue or library now. And it's not a shock to hear people complain about standing up for more than 30 seconds at a time because they prefer their fat asses to continue to accumulate calories at all times possible. It's their right to take the 30 minutes to get out in the cold, come to Koch Arena, be disengaged and show their pride like a bum on a log.

I would suggest we get a team like Valpo or Belmont. Heck, even ORU is significantly better then most of our schedule. I am sure those teams would be happy to sign a home-home. Problem is that we won't go on the road to the play anyone but the big boys and that requires a home-home and they aren't going to give that to us. So we end up with a lot of really bad home games.

I also disagree with the statement about a lot of these games being inked years in advance. The Tulsa series yes. The rest of them minus LBSU were really bad choices for bye games.

SF - Next home game, I expect to see you in cape with a big "SF" on the front so I can see an example of how we should all behave.

[ShockerFever]

Best response yet! It seems we have a lot of people that just don't understand this and think that every game should be sold out with every single person up on their feet cheering and hooting and hollering like idiots for the entire game. Mark me in the crowd that would rather sit home and enjoy the game from the comfort of his cushy couch on his big screen tv where he can see the whole game, instead of being blocked out by a bunch of morons standing up and cheering and being obnoxious the entire game. That, and dealing with parking and all that jazz. no thanks, I don't do big crowds, and I'm just fine. Why can't people understand that not everybodys life is devoted to going to a game and cheering a team on.

It's probably just as well you sit at home on the couch. I'm not sure why your phobia fear should be applied here. That's obviously going to slant your view on athletics in general.

And talk about going from one extreme to another..

Idiots and morons? That's real nice. Are you off your meds again?