New Era for Shox and 3G

[Dan]

Ron and Fred both making opening day roster officially ushers in the next phase of Shocker basketball and 3G as a coach. Early was the 1st to make the NBA (not sure I count Mekel), and now Ron and Fred build on the story that kids can get to the NBA through WSU. I've said all along that our recruiting will be stepped up another notch once 3G can start putting guys into the NBA on a regular basis. McDuffie will likely be #4 and now we have a trend. I expect to get our first 5* guy in the next year or 2. Once that heppens, it will snowball from there.

[wufan]

Don't forget Murry!

[Aargh]

The 5* guys will make the NBA no matter where they go. They are likely to want to go the traditional route and play for the prestige name, and WSU isn't there (or even close) yet. The 5* guys would hate playing for Marshall. It's hard to pad the ppg stats on a team that emphasizes defense and rebounding over scoring. I doubt Marshall will spend much recruiting time or budget on the elite players.

The upper end of the 4* guys is another matter. A lot of those guys aren't automatic NBA guys who are likely to leave college early. Even among those guys there are a bunch who are delusional and overestimate their talents. Marshall probably won't be going after those guys, or have much of a chance to get them.

The borderline guys who are realistic about their skills and development are the ones Marshall will likely be looking for. With Selden and Ellis both not making their squads opening day roster, he's got a great argument for the advantages of playing at WSU.

I don't think Marshall will try to recruit many 5* guys. Might get some, but I doubt that will be a priority. I think he will also avoid guys who think they're automatic in the NBA after a year or two when they're not. That leaves some very talented players with realistic aspirations, who are willing to play D and team ball, and might actually realize the value of a college education. He can win a NC with players like that.

[Steeleshocker]

Guys will also see how he took guys who were not at all on the NBA (or college) radar and developed their skills to where they made opening day rosters in their first season out of college.

There are quality guys at the 4* and 5* slots who want to develop their skills (not all of them). Marshall will start getting into more of those living rooms and it's only a matter of time.

[wufan]

The 5* guys will make the NBA no matter where they go. They are likely to want to go the traditional route and play for the prestige name, and WSU isn't there (or even close) yet. The 5* guys would hate playing for Marshall. It's hard to pad the ppg stats on a team that emphasizes defense and rebounding over scoring. I doubt Marshall will spend much recruiting time or budget on the elite players.

The upper end of the 4* guys is another matter. A lot of those guys aren't automatic NBA guys who are likely to leave college early. Even among those guys there are a bunch who are delusional and overestimate their talents. Marshall probably won't be going after those guys, or have much of a chance to get them.

The borderline guys who are realistic about their skills and development are the ones Marshall will likely be looking for. With Selden and Ellis both not making their squads opening day roster, he's got a great argument for the advantages of playing at WSU.

I don't think Marshall will try to recruit many 5* guys. Might get some, but I doubt that will be a priority. I think he will also avoid guys who think they're automatic in the NBA after a year or two when they're not. That leaves some very talented players with realistic aspirations, who are willing to play D and team ball, and might actually realize the value of a college education. He can win a NC with players like that.

I see where you are coming from, but disagree with a lot of it. First, I believe Marshall will recruit the best player he can find and will mold them into his type of player. Certainly 5* ballers are going to be more difficult to recruit, so he won't go after many of them.

Four star players is where I'd like to see us. Those guys (VanVleet, McDuffie, Shamet) have a real chance to dominate the Valley and make the NBA. If they come in with the right mindset, Marshall will have them making a small fortune professionally. Of course with those four star guys, I think we will bring in a lot of JUCO AAs (Hall, Wiggins, Ragland, Smith, Early, Carter, Willis) and transfers (Coleby, Armstead, Mitchell, Grady, Allen, Frankamp), and there is still plenty of room for under the radar types that sometimes work out in a big way (Cotton, Baker, Reaves?) and sometimes not (Holland, Green). The rest of the roster is then filled out with the hit (Murray, Kyles, Stutz, Brown) and miss (Taylor, Manigault, Henderson) three star players and JUCOs (Glass, Lufile, Wamukota).

Bottom line is that if Marshall sees talent he can mold, they get a scholarship offer regardless of ranking. First come, first serve, but no one is safe from being cut until they've earned it.

[shockmonster]

Like SS said,Snowball may not be the right word, but I would not be surprised if recruiting 4* players would be easier and maybe a 5* every once in a while.

[Dan]

Maybe not 5* guys but our recruiting classes are going to start getting exponentially better. I expect to start winning more recruiting battles. Let's face it, most kids playing high level D1 have NBA aspirations, whether it's realistic or not. 3G is getting more arrows in his quiver with every guy he sends to the NBA. It's not just a "hope" anymore through WSU, it's a realistic possibility.

[Shocker1976]

Ron and Fred both making opening day roster officially ushers in the next phase of Shocker basketball and 3G as a coach. Early was the 1st to make the NBA (not sure I count Mekel), and now Ron and Fred build on the story that kids can get to the NBA through WSU. I've said all along that our recruiting will be stepped up another notch once 3G can start putting guys into the NBA on a regular basis. McDuffie will likely be #4 and now we have a trend. I expect to get our first 5* guy in the next year or 2. Once that heppens, it will snowball from there.

IMO the "next phase of Shocker basketball" has already arrived given this year's roster contains players such as MM, LS, CF, AR and CJ. Success of FVV and RB bodes well for recruitment of future Shockers; Isaac Humphries comes to mind as a player who may well select the Shockers in the future rather than accept the hype of Calipari. Especially now that future recruits can see IH is buried on the bench at UK and his skill set is not improving (much like PE at KU).

As wufan posted in the recruitment thread, Kemaka Hepa, Nazreon Reid and Keenan Fitzmorris are three high potential recruits that meet the player profile HC3G wants and recruits. When the Shockers began to land big men of this caliber to play with the guards HC3G already recruits then the Shockers IMO will routinely be recognized as players on the national mens basketball stage!

[WuShock16]

Even among those guys there are a bunch who are delusional and overestimate their talents.

Let's face it, most kids playing high level D1 have NBA aspirations, whether it's realistic or not.

Yeah, whether a no-star or a 5-star, guys will think they can play in the NBA. I remember hearing from someone years ago that James Anacreon kept saying that an ankle injury was the only thing that kept him out of The League. Ummm....no. Heck, even Mark Turgeon thought he might have an NBA shot before Larry Brown gave him a big dose of reality.

[wu_shizzle]

You have to wonder if Perry Ellis looking back, wonders if he would have had a better college career and better preparation for the NBA at Wichita State.

It's a great story to tell recruits that HCGM can take a No Star (Baker) a 3 star (Murry) or a 4 star (FVV) and prepare them for the NBA.

It's also a very powerful story to tell recruits that picking an elite program like KU doesn't necessarily give you the preparation you need to succeed in the NBA. Wichita State may actually give you a better chance to succeed.

[ShockerPhi]

Yeah and it's not like KU helped NBA first rounders such as Andrew Wiggins, Ben Mclemore and Kelly Oubre. They were going to the NBA after 1 year no matter what college they went to. Picking KU was just for the letters on the jersey and nothing else. So for the players who are on the cusp of potentially going to the NBA, Wichita State should look a lot nicer now.

[AZ Shocker]

Yeah and it's not like KU helped NBA first rounders such as Andrew Wiggins, Ben Mclemore and Kelly Oubre. They were going to the NBA after 1 year no matter what college they went to. Picking KU was just for the letters on the jersey and nothing else. So for the players who are on the cusp of potentially going to the NBA, Wichita State should look a lot nicer now.

What he said!

[Aargh]

We're coming around to the point I was trying (evidently poorly) to make.

This is just my opinion. I don't have any in to Marshall's recruiting philospohy.

Marshall is unlikely to go after guys who are certain to make NBA rosters. Those guys are going to go to schools that are well-known as specializing in "one-and-done" players. I'm certain he will have his eyes and ears open if one of those types of players has an interest in WSU, but that won't be a priority in his recruiting.

Marshall is unlikely to go after guys who are convinced they are certain to make an NBA roster when they don't have that level of talent. Aspirations, yes. Delusions, no. It just doesn't work out well to tell some over-confident 16- or 17-year old guy that he's not as good as he thinks and he needs the kind of development Marshall could give him.

Guys who know they have a shot and want the best coaching in college to prepare them for that shot - those are going to be Marshall's targets. Those recruiting targets are going to be consistent with the great character and (typically) high BBIQ that Marshall has been recrtuiting. Hamilton may be an exception to the high BBIQ, but if he ever gets it - look out. Expect an occasional project from Marshall. He's always had a few.

Another thing. the guys who want to learn are coachable. That's always been a trait of Marshall's players and may be the reason some recruits haven't stayed with the program. I'm not saying any who transferred weren't coachable. That's something we will never know. It's something Marshall would know.

[AZ Shocker]

^^^^ What he said. ^^^^

[choida]

McDuffie is almost a lock... And Landry and Reaves have potential