So what we learned (Canada)

[shockmonster]

Sounds like a good review.

I would guess that WSU didn't do much scouting of any type. They have a limited period this summer to "work on themselves" as it were. The article above talks about the amount of stuff they were trying to get put in and used in live games given the extra practices this summer. It makes for ugly basketball in August, but should pay off big-time in November.

Having said that, I do not mean to imply they didn't get beat by a better team. They got licked, and I don't think a little scouting would have fixed that. Hopefully they didn't like it and will work to not let it happen again.

I was also disappointed in the lack of toughness and quit shown by the WSU players in the Carleton game. Very unlike every Marshall team we've ever had, but there is time for that to change before November. Players begin to learn what is expected of them during situations like that, also in the article.

Thanks for posting throughout this process.

I think you are right and the amount of practice time limited any opportunity to stress about a scouting report. We had 10 practices and I'm not sure but aren't practices
limited in time allowance to 2 hours by the NCAA? With the combination of new players, inexperience, putting in a basic offense to everyone, they just didn't have the
time. Coach Marshall made a comment during the trip (I think after the Carleton game) that some players were thinking instead of playing and that wasn't a good thing to succeed.

[Shocker1976]

I learned that I am ready for basketball to start!!

Me too!!!

[Ricardo del Rio]

- Zach Brown seems to be stepping up as a leader and spokesman for the team
- Conner has a nice mid-range game
- Hamilton needs to redshirt this year
- Willis and Smith both need a lot more practice
- Shamet is ready to be the next big thing at WSU

Hyphen 3 - I agree, if Eric will do so with a good attitude. Very good idea.

[Kel Varnsen]

You seem to be as fixated on Shaq as I was on a player that graduated last year (who I will only mention in positive sentences now that he is graduated).

I would not call 4 games with shoddy refereeing a representative sample as to whether Shaq has changed or not, as we cannot tell whether there is a problem with the referees or with the player.

I will say this, I did note improvement at the end of the season last year. Except for the Miami game (where they had a huge front line and their strategy was to get our best front-line player in foul trouble), I think he played pretty well. He's been up against some pretty salty competition (a number of players who he had to guard are now in Europe or the NBA).

I think the jury's out as to whether he will continue to improve, but I did note some improvement last year as the season progressed. I also think we got him some good help (Daryle Willis(sp)) that will take some of the load off of him, so let's wait until the real season with real referees starts before we start making broad sweeping conclusions.

Looking back at the box scores, he played 25 minutes against Miami (still had four fouls), while playing 9 (!!!) against Vandy and 17 against Arizona. I definitely agree that Darral Willis will help. I also think that having a player more versatile defensively than Wessel in will help long term with that.

I've always wondered if we should just start someone else at the 5 and see if it helps the foul situation. Shaq can still come in off the bench, while being our first option at that position. Just start Willis or Nurger or someone, and let Shaq get into the groove after a few minutes.

[im4wsu]

You seem to be as fixated on Shaq as I was on a player that graduated last year (who I will only mention in positive sentences now that he is graduated).

I would not call 4 games with shoddy refereeing a representative sample as to whether Shaq has changed or not, as we cannot tell whether there is a problem with the referees or with the player.

I will say this, I did note improvement at the end of the season last year. Except for the Miami game (where they had a huge front line and their strategy was to get our best front-line player in foul trouble), I think he played pretty well. He's been up against some pretty salty competition (a number of players who he had to guard are now in Europe or the NBA).

I think the jury's out as to whether he will continue to improve, but I did note some improvement last year as the season progressed. I also think we got him some good help (Daryle Willis(sp)) that will take some of the load off of him, so let's wait until the real season with real referees starts before we start making broad sweeping conclusions.

Shaq's game-by-game minutes and fouls in 2015-16.
http://

[wufan]

I learned CF is a much of a liability on defense as he is an asset on offense. I'm concerned about our ability to stop penetration of other teams' guards. Also concerned Shaq has still not figured out how to play ball intelligently.

The coaching staff was pleased with his defense.

[jcdshocker]

I learned CF is a much of a liability on defense as he is an asset on offense. I'm concerned about our ability to stop penetration of other teams' guards. Also concerned Shaq has still not figured out how to play ball intelligently.

I was actually pleasantly surprised with the level of his defense. He has come along way. Is he Tekele, no. He will be a leader on this team. If you want to be a leader you must play on offense and defense.

[Royalno5]

Shack has greatly improved his defense, and he does not foul near as much as he used too, however I think that when a player gets a reputation, he is watched more closely than other players, many times unfairly, and is never given the benefit of the doubt especially with some lazy referees. I am really not sure what can be done to overcome this preconceived attitude.

[Steeleshocker]

Shack has greatly improved his defense, and he does not foul near as much as he used too, however I think that when a player gets a reputation, he is watched more closely than other players, many times unfairly, and is never given the benefit of the doubt especially with some lazy referees. I am really not sure what can be done to overcome this preconceived attitude.

To be fair, he also hasn't been wrongly accused of fouling when he goes to Shaq-wall mode.

[wusphlash]

Markis put on some muscle and it looks good.
Big men still like to shoot jumpers. Too much so.
Finishing at the rim is still an issue.
Point guard is up in the air.
Our defense is too complex to learn in 10 practices.
We will be far more athletic as a team.
CF is a great shooter when he doesn't hesitate.
What we learned in August may be long forgotten come January.

[wufan]

Markis put on some muscle and it looks good.
Big men still like to shoot jumpers. Too much so.
Finishing at the rim is still an issue.
Point guard is up in the air.
Our defense is too complex to learn in 10 practices.
We will be far more athletic as a team.
CF is a great shooter when he doesn't hesitate.
What we learned in August may be long forgotten come January.

I think we are okay at PG. we will have some ups and downs (remember Joe Ragland's first year where Murry, Rags, Williams rotated?), but overall, I expect Conner and Daishon to hold their own.

[asiseeit]

About half of the players in the rotation are better suited for a zone defense ( SM, RN, CF, PA ). I
know, I KNOW, GM likes to play man but the strengths and weaknesses of our top eight players may
mean more zone this season. If you put in the best defensive players the offense will struggle so
I really think more zone may be the ticket. Either that or SM and RN are going to need to stop chasing
their men out to the three point line and stay in the paint. When they chase their man out that far
they leave a huge opening in the paint and then they commit silly fouls trying to recover. I really
believe those two HAVE to lay back more. In addition, EH is a very poor man defender.

[ShockdaWorld]

About half of the players in the rotation are better suited for a zone defense ( SM, RN, CF, PA ). I
know, I KNOW, GM likes to play man but the strengths and weaknesses of our top eight players may
mean more zone this season. If you put in the best defensive players the offense will struggle so
I really think more zone may be the ticket. Either that or SM and RN are going to need to stop chasing
their men out to the three point line and stay in the paint. When they chase their man out that far
they leave a huge opening in the paint and then they commit silly fouls trying to recover. I really
believe those two HAVE to lay back more. In addition, EH is a very poor man defender.

I agree with most of this and I love it when we drop back from a full court press into a pressure zone. The only part I'm not sure about is that the offense will struggle with our best defenders on the floor. I agree that the post defense has to be better, but our two best defenders (imo) are also looking like two of our best offensive players.

[shocka khan]

I agree with most of this and I love it when we drop back from a full court press into a pressure zone. The only part I'm not sure about is that the offense will struggle with our best defenders on the floor. I agree that the post defense has to be better, but our two best defenders (imo) are also looking like two of our best offensive players.

Doesn't Marshall like to play a Fresno zone at times? At least that's what I learned from the TV announcers. Perhaps more zone needs to be played, but he definitely knows how to play a zone.

[Kel Varnsen]

Doesn't Marshall like to play a Fresno zone at times? At least that's what I learned from the TV announcers. Perhaps more zone needs to be played, but he definitely knows how to play a zone.

I feel like it's rare that he does go to a zone, but I'm lacking specific examples.

I do remember thinking we should have gone to a zone against UNI in the Valley tournament last year. Washpun's dribble penetration straight up destroyed us at the end of the game, and they kept using the guy being guarded by our slowest player (Wessel on multiple occasions) to screen for him so he would switch onto Washpun instead of Baker or Brown.