Interesting Insight from a Ref

[AZ Shocker]

I thought this was an interesting Q and A from referee.com It leads me to question and ask...why would refs need to know about the team and certain players before reffing a particular game??? Doesn't that get dangerously close to establishing a preconceived bias?

REFEREE: What’s the best pregame you’ve ever been involved with and why?

ADAMS: A pregame that starts in the car. Normally two officials riding in a car together. The best pregames start in the car, and the reason why is because you start talking about what the teams are going to be trying to accomplish. For example, if I’m doing a team from out west that I don’t normally do but one of the other referees in the car has, they start to talk about what this team is trying to accomplish, or what that team is trying to accomplish, who to look for, who the troublemakers are, who are the scorers, who are the key players, what is the coach’s personality like, is he good to work toward things like that. Ones that start in the car on the way to the game and continue into the locker room, and as we continue the conversation, not so much as a sit down with your board type pregame. Those are the best pregames, as we talk in conversation and what we’re trying to do in the game, things like that.

[rrshock]

At any level, officiating a team multiple times, it is difficult to not know when the coach is an ass and when certain players like to run their mouths or get a little too physical. I think talking about it helps the refs keep a game under control if they have an idea as to what will probably get out of hand.

[ShockdaWorld]

I thought this was an interesting Q and A from referee.com It leads me to question and ask...why would refs need to know about the team and certain players before reffing a particular game??? Doesn't that get dangerously close to establishing a preconceived bias?

REFEREE: What’s the best pregame you’ve ever been involved with and why?

ADAMS: A pregame that starts in the car. Normally two officials riding in a car together. The best pregames start in the car, and the reason why is because you start talking about what the teams are going to be trying to accomplish. For example, if I’m doing a team from out west that I don’t normally do but one of the other referees in the car has, they start to talk about what this team is trying to accomplish, or what that team is trying to accomplish, who to look for, who the troublemakers are, who are the scorers, who are the key players, what is the coach’s personality like, is he good to work toward things like that. Ones that start in the car on the way to the game and continue into the locker room, and as we continue the conversation, not so much as a sit down with your board type pregame. Those are the best pregames, as we talk in conversation and what we’re trying to do in the game, things like that.

I agree with the preconceived bias idea, which I believe is why FVV has received so few calls this year compared to last year, and also compared to other players in the exact same situations. It's been discussed that he liked to cause contact, so they assume that he's not going to get fouled, ever. And the offensive foul calls, while there have been a few that were probably good calls, there have also been some that were anticipation calls, decided before the contact ever took place.

[AndShock]

It's interesting that the ref that did the Q&A is the same douchebag that ejected a radio guy for no reason.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2016/3/7/11176410/green-bay-announcer-ejected-referee-college-basketball

[im4wsu]

At the University of Colorado, I had a math class "taught" by the head of the department and he was so far above teaching that when I went to his off ice to ask for assistance, he turned his back to me and talked out the window. Neeedless to say, we did not have a good relationship. The next year I had a geometry class with a nce young female prof and I asked questions in class, scored well on exams and did everything I was supposed to do. Instead of the A I expected, I got a C+. While sipping on a soda at the Alfred E. Packer grill between semesters, this prof walked by. I said "hello" and she sat down and we visited. I asked her why the discrepancy in grades and she told me, essentially, "you know how students get together and talk about the teachers they've been scheduled, well, the teachers do the same thing and talk about kids. I was told you were a troublemaker, disruptive to class and very difficult to deal with." (guess who that came from) "when you asked questions, I assumed you were trying to be disruptive and even though you never were, I was anticipating it and was waiting for thee other shoe to fall.: I arranged my schedule to have her the second semester and did B work and received an A.

I think this occurs in officiating. A bad rep with one official gets spread around and anticipation calls result.

I remember Ralph Miller telling about Dave the Rave being called for traveling nearly every time he mad his move along the baseline. Ralph took films and sent them to whoever (commissioner, head of officials, whoever) and they explained that what he was doing was not traveling. We know the rest of the story, his jersey in hanging in the rafters and officials no longer anticipated the traveling that wasn't there.

[Ashockalypse]

This thread should be called interesting insight into a ref. He is completely unaware that he's saying he prejudges an outcome. Not smart enough to give insight and apparently doesn't care if his boss knows he has made the call before game time.

[Aargh]

When Marshall gets into it with Elgin and the supervisor of officials in St. Louis, a lot of posters defend him and point out how Elgin needs Marshall a lot more than Marshall needs Elgin. The problem with that is that if a coach pisses off the league administration, there can be consequences.

I expect the league sends video to officials and lets them know what they want enforced in games. How much do you want to bet that most (or maybe all) of the "we want to see this called" video features WSU players?

[AZ Shocker]

When Marshall gets into it with Elgin and the supervisor of officials in St. Louis, a lot of posters defend him and point out how Elgin needs Marshall a lot more than Marshall needs Elgin. The problem with that is that if a coach pisses off the league administration, there can be consequences.

I expect the league sends video to officials and lets them know what they want enforced in games. How much do you want to bet that most (or maybe all) of the "we want to see this called" video features WSU players?

North of 90% of all video.

[HockeyShock]

When Marshall gets into it with Elgin and the supervisor of officials in St. Louis, a lot of posters defend him and point out how Elgin needs Marshall a lot more than Marshall needs Elgin. The problem with that is that if a coach pisses off the league administration, there can be consequences.

I expect the league sends video to officials and lets them know what they want enforced in games. How much do you want to bet that most (or maybe all) of the "we want to see this called" video features WSU players?

So....not to be combative...but what exactly do you call the treatment WSU has received in St. Louis thus far?

[Shoxfan11]

So....not to be combative...but what exactly do you call the treatment WSU has received in St. Louis thus far?

Seriously lol

Marshall's first two years in St. Louis included him getting thrown out of a game and his team losing to a shot that shouldn't have counted. The funny thing about that game is that it took the refs a long freaking time to determine how much time should have been left for Creighton's last possession, and it only took them (and Elgin in the truck) a millisecond to proclaim that the basket was good and should have counted. Let's not forget a couple years later where Stutz got T'd up for yelling "what" while a guy was trying to hit him in his freaking nuts

[Aargh]

So....not to be combative...but what exactly do you call the treatment WSU has received in St. Louis thus far?

I'm suggesting the treatment WSU has gotten in St. Louis might be the league office providing 10 clips of FVV from last year to the officials and saying those are examples of what should be charging calls this year.

Instead of using clips from various players to demonstrate how games should be called, the league office can just use clips of Shockers.

Marshall upset the apple cart in St. Louis year 1 when he got 2 T's. Then there was the 1.9 second incident - he didn't make friends with Elgin over that. Then there was the "can't wait to get on a neutral court" comment, and then going into the media room out of order and insisting on doing his interview ahead of the scheduled coach.

Did you notice that the Valley supervisor of officials was in attendance at every game the Shox lost in league play? Did you notice that the foul counts went through the roof when he was there? When the supervisotr of officials is in the house, WSU has to play different or the entire squad is likely to foul out.

I am suggesting that the league office doesn't like Marshall and has an attitude that they will teach him what happens to coaches who dare to piss them off.

[ShockerFever]

And that's gonna piss off WSU all the way out of the Missouri Valley Conference.

Careful what you wish for, Valley.

[Aargh]

Generally, Sr's, AA's and home teams get the benefit of the whistles. That DEFINITELY did not happen with Baker and VanVleet. It's like the refs singled out Baker and VanVleet and made sure to saddle them with phantom fouls and take away major parts of their games.

I blame the bad shooting nights on the fact that there were some really strange calls . That stuff gets under a player's skin and can affect every aspect of their game.

It's easy to say that a made shot here or there or a made FT would have prevented the outcome from being affected by the officials. It's also safe to say that the officials set the tone early for how the game is to be played and that has a huge impact on how the players play.

I don't think the Shox adjusted well to how games were being called. When FVV got a charging call every time he drove the lane, it never occurred to him to stop, go straight up and shoot a 6' shot instead of leaning in for a layup where he'd get hammered and probably get a charge called on him.

[AZ Shocker]

Yeah...there were some really strange calls this year against FVV. The most recent was in St. Louis were the refs put Fred on the bench with 2 quick phantom calls. I believe that was by design straight from Elgin. How better way to improve the leagues chances of 2 teams?

[wsushox1]

That is pretty much standard operating procedures for officials.


If you go into a game not knowing who the impact players are you probably aren't going to officiate that game very well.