De ja vu (sp?)

[BBShox84]

Probably just my eternal optimism for anything shockers, but it seems to me there are some ironic similarities between this years team saga and the 2013 final four team saga. Could history repeat itself and make this a wonderful storyline this year?

2013/2016
Baker foot injury and late season return/Shamet foot injury and ??
Hall and Wessel injured/VanVleet and Grady injured
3 mvc losses in Feb/ 2 mvc losses in Feb (hopefully not another)

Sure there are several other similarities, and still optimistic about how the shox end the season. Fire up, play angry and get to the promised land this year!!

Go Shox!!

[Horn28Clem30]

I hope you're right, but the way the last few weeks have went, I don't have as much optimism. Cleanthony Early, Carl Hall, Malcolm and D Will aren't walking back through the door...and they were huge parts of that team. Cle and Mal were huge in that run. Unless someone steps up...I don't see it right now. Defense only gets you so far.

[ShockdaWorld]

I don't think any of us saw it that year either until the guys put it all together, and then it was magical.

[Stickboy46]

I don't think any of us saw it that year either until the guys put it all together, and then it was magical.

I really think our big key is still waiting to be shown ... Shamet. He has the ability to replace Tekele's driving ability. It's a big key that we are missing right now. I just hope his ankle will allow it.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Probably just my eternal optimism for anything shockers, but it seems to me there are some ironic similarities between this years team saga and the 2013 final four team saga. Could history repeat itself and make this a wonderful storyline this year?

2013/2016
Baker foot injury and late season return/Shamet foot injury and ??
Hall and Wessel injured/VanVleet and Grady injured
3 mvc losses in Feb/ 2 mvc losses in Feb (hopefully not another)

Sure there are several other similarities, and still optimistic about how the shox end the season. Fire up, play angry and get to the promised land this year!!

Go Shox!!

No.

Freshmen Shamet is not Freshmen Baker. Freshmen Baker filled a big hole when he came back and pushed lesser players like Nick Wiggins and Demetric Williams to the bench. Upgrading from those guys to Baker was a huge boost. Freshmen Shamet will be a role player if he returns and will be most helpful in giving rest to starters. Useful, but not nearly as impactful. If he doesn't come back, I'm not scared of Fred and Ron playing 35+ minutes each with everything on the line in March.

This team has no Cle. Markis has been compared to Cle, and is only a Freshman, so he has time to mature, but MM as a Freshman in February is nowhere near Cle as a Jr in Feb. CleAnthony averaged 13 per game in February. MM hasn't even hit double figures once in his last 6 games. It is wishful thinking to expect MM to be more than a solid bench player the rest of this year. Next year and beyond is when he will shine. I just don't see a Cle vs Louisville type of "take over and lead the team" type of performance ready to come out in the next 40-50 days. He might be better than Cle as a Jr., but this year he is not on the same tier.

[_kai_]

Freshmen Shamet is not Freshmen Baker. Freshmen Baker filled a big hole when he came back and pushed lesser players like Nick Wiggins and Demetric Williams to the bench. Upgrading from those guys to Baker was a huge boost. Freshmen Shamet will be a role player if he returns and will be most helpful in giving rest to starters. Useful, but not nearly as impactful. If he doesn't come back, I'm not scared of Fred and Ron playing 35+ minutes each with everything on the line in March.

Ahh, the wonderful benefit of hindsight being 20/20.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Ahh, the wonderful benefit of hindsight being 20/20.

1 - I'll admit that Shamet COULD be as good as Baker was immediately after returning. It is possible, just not likely. Baker set a really high bar.

Even so, and more importantly...

2 - The void that the 2013 team had and the need for Baker was greater than the void that this team has for Shamet. Even if he returns and plays equal to 2013 Baker, the improvement over the players he is displacing is less this year than Baker was in 2013. A minute taken away from Wiggins/Williams leaves much more opportunity for gain than a minute taken from Fred or Ron. I'll take Fred/Ron in their 32nd-35th minutes of play, and slightly tired, over Wiggins/Williams fresh off the bench. We aren't taking about the effects of Shamet over the grueling stretch of conference play. We are talking about March Madness, where the Shox get lots of rest before round 1 and the play merely 2 games a week.

Regarding Cle and MM, it is just no contest. Cle was significantly better at this stage of the season than MM.

[Stickboy46]

1 - I'll admit that he COULD be as good as Baker was immediately after returning. Although of course that is on the rosy end of the possible spectrum.

Even so...

2 - The void that the 2013 team had and the need for Baker was greater than the void that this team has for Shamet. Even if he returns and plays equal to 2013 Baker, the improvement over the player's he is displacing is less this year than Baker was in 2013. A minute taken away from Wiggins/Williams leaves much more opportunity for gain than a minute taken from Fred or Ron.

We need someone that is willing to the attack the basket besides Ron. Landry has the ability to do that. Now will he? I don't know. Zach and to a lesser extent Markis both have that ability too, but neither do it consistently. I disagree though, that he doesn't fill one of our biggest gaps. We have no one (besides Fred) willing to drive ... he has that ability. I think he could take minutes from Zach and put a Fred, Ron, Landry combo on the floor though.

[Horn28Clem30]

Can someone please explain why Rashard's minutes have dipped so much? He seems to be more athletic than Wessel w/ the same motor. He's always around the ball and can finish at the rim.

[Play Angry]

We need someone that is willing to the attack the basket besides Ron. Landry has the ability to do that. Now will he? I don't know. Zach and to a lesser extent Markis both have that ability too, but neither do it consistently. I disagree though, that he doesn't fill one of our biggest gaps. We have no one (besides Fred) willing to drive ... he has that ability. I think he could take minutes from Zach and put a Fred, Ron, Landry combo on the floor though.

I agree with this, and would note that it may (likely would?) also result in fewer minutes for Evan because of changes in roles/rotation.

Evan is undisputed king of intangibles, but if you are talking offensive efficiency in nerd numbers then Jamar has the massive upgrade he is looking for.

[ShockerFever]

can finish at the rim.

Huh? Are we watching the same games?

[Horn28Clem30]

Heck of a lot better ability to score the ball as opposed to Wessel.

[ShockerFever]

Heck of a lot better ability to score the ball as opposed to Wessel.

Not really. I'd call their scoring abilities about a push. And then give a serious edge to Wessel with rebounding and defense.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to throw Wessel under the bus unprovoked.

[ShockdaWorld]

I like the Landry at the 3, ZB/MM at the 4 idea. Gives more size AND more offensive ability on the floor, and I don't think it costs us much defensively.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

I like the Landry at the 3, ZB/MM at the 4 idea. Gives more size AND more offensive ability on the floor, and I don't think it costs us much defensively.

Landry at the 3 gives WSU more size? When WSU wants to go big they play MM at the 3. Landry at the 3 is going small. He's 6'-4", 188lbs and the smallest 3 WSU could potentially throw out there.