The Rule of 1

[im4wsu]

How did I get wrangled into posting guidelines. I'm confused, or is this against guidelines calling myself names.

Your statement referred to the most frequent adjectives address by CBB, but the rules and guidelines were meant for the user of those many adjectives, not for you or CBB for referring to the use of them.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

@im4wsu:, Kai does not enforce those rules anymore. He should take down the guidelines post. It no longer applies.

[SHOXAAC]

Your statement referred to the most frequent adjectives address by CBB, but the rules and guidelines were meant for the user of those many adjectives, not for you or CBB for referring to the use of them.

Gotcha, thanks. I get in enough trouble outside of SN.

[choida]

this is exactly the kinda year the we need to make the tourney and take advantage of this parity filled year...just get a ticket to prom, survive and advance...best example was the year UCONN won with Kemba Walker and then again with Shabazz Napier...those teams were wrongfully ranked and showed their worth in the big dance.

[Ricardo del Rio]

KenPom #18 AFTER today's loss. No top 20 in KP has EVER been left out.

Terrible? Your adjective is terrible. Maybe even turrible.

How about "lacking?"

[Ricardo del Rio]

I hope Watcher's meteor does not hit Fred and Ron as they are walking together to class.

[HenryMuto]

this is exactly the kinda year the we need to make the tourney and take advantage of this parity filled year...just get a ticket to prom, survive and advance...best example was the year UCONN won with Kemba Walker and then again with Shabazz Napier...those teams were wrongfully ranked and showed their worth in the big dance.

The 2011 team was a 3 seed after UCONN had to win 5 straight games as the #9 seed in the Big East tourney how is being a 3 seed after being the #9 seed in your conference regular season wrongfully ranked ?

The 2014 team was a 7 seed that was the #4 seed in the American conference that happened to go on a miracle run in the NCAA tournament.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Thank you Mike Kennedy for just now paraphrasing my "rule of 1" during the pre game radio show. Glad you agree with me. :-)

[OregonShocker]

Thank you Mike Kennedy for just now paraphrasing my "rule of 1" during the pre game radio show. Glad you agree with me. :-)

I guess you ARE ready to step in if Kennedy goes down!

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Do you know what would be really hilarious? You trying to argue against a point. You can't do it, so you repeat the same lines and hope someone else does it for you. Here, I'll give you the tools. Tell me how where you would put these two teams:

A:

RPI: 52
SOS: 96
OOC SOS: 55
KenPom O/D: 58/72
Scoring Margin: 11
Important Wins: 81, 84, 84, 112, 123, 123, 141
Important Losses: 3, 6, 43, 43, 49, 84, 112, 207

B:

RPI: 43
SOS: 111
OOC SOS: 21
KenPom (O/D): 82/5
Scoring Margin: 12.70
Important Wins: 15, 92, 92, 117, 122, 122, 126, 137
Important Losses: 7, 26, 38, 48, 51, 105, 126

Where would you put team A? 11-seed? 9? Where would you put team B?

Obviously there is more data I'd like to see about each team, but I'll bite since @ShockerFever won't. Team B is probably in by a couple seed lines. 10 seed +/-. Team A is probably a bubble team that gets sent to the NIT.

Now please confirm who the teams are and tell us what is your point?

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

I'm not sure if @CBB_Fan is going to respond or not to my previous post. I'll go ahead and clarify a couple things. @ShockerFever, you'll enjoy this.

Earlier in this thread, I caught @CBB_Fan 's mistake identifying 2011 WSU as KenPom #25, when in reality that was their post-NIT championship ranking, and #56 was their selection sunday rank. Big difference, and he never responded to admit his error. Normally I would chalk this up to a simple mistake, but then he posted the team A vs team B blind resume comparison, and I found some funny business going on.

Resume B is clearly 2016 WSU, and the numbers appear accurate.

Based on previous conversation in this thread and numerous similarities, it is obvious that resume A is an "ATTEMPT" at 2011 WSU's resume. @CBB_Fan was clearly intending to show similarities between this year's resume and the NIT champs from 5 years ago. However, in regards to the 2011 resume he identified...

He overstated RPI by 8 spots. It was 60, not 52. I verified this with 2 different RPI sources.
He overstated SOS by 11 spots. It was 107, not 96. I verified this with 2 different RPI sources.
He wildly overstated OOC SOS. I can not find old OOC SOS data on any RPI sites, but KenPom's site ranks it #266. That team played 7 non-con games vs teams 200+, so we know the OOC SOS had to have been pretty poor. How @CBB_Fan came up with a rank of 55 is beyond me.
He was very close on scoring margin, but I calculate +10, not +11. Rounding error, or fudging the numbers ever so slightly to favor his argument?
Wins/losses match exactly, and I mean EXACTLY, with 1 exception. The loss to #6 was really to #14. Otherwise, team A matches perfectly with 2011 WSU. I guess he assumed no one would notice the one tweak. The precise matches of every other win and loss to the RPI data I found is what tells me that he absolutely didn't make up resume A out of thin air. He used 2011 WSU and then modified it.

So, I'd love to hear a response from the man himself. You followed up a big mistake on KenPom ranking (25 vs 56) with a full "resume" of the 2011 team, tweaking the data on nearly every line making that team look better than they were. All the errors were subtle, except the OOC SOS, which was drastically wrong. Had you not been so wildly inacurrate on OOC SOS, I might not have caught your other, smaller tweaks, at all.

@CBB_Fan, it really does appear that you are being dishonest to try and support your case that 2016 WSU is in danger of looking like 2011 WSU and going to the NIT. I hesitated to make this accusation, but you've had 24 hours and not responded to my original request in post #40 of this thread. I'm willing to hear you out if you have a legitimate defense, and I'll be anxiously waiting until then.

Sincerely,

A fan of the truth

[pinstripers]

7 losses=in.........8 losses=likely in........9 losses=likely out

[ShockCrazy]

He overstated RPI by 8 spots. It was 60, not 52. I verified this with 2 different RPI sources.
He overstated SOS by 11 spots. It was 107, not 96. I verified this with 2 different RPI sources.
He wildly overstated OOC SOS. I can not find old OOC SOS data on any RPI sites, but KenPom's site ranks it #266.

Here is where you can pull up all the official RPI info for a given year at selection time: https://rpiarchive.ncaa.org/default.aspx. Just set report equal to selection for a given year.

Here is the year in question: https://rpiarchive.ncaa.org/Stats%20...0by%20RPI2.pdf

Also people tend to romanticize 2011 as the team who got snubbed because they won the NIT, but really the team that got snubbed(if you could say that one was) was the year before. RPI of 43, 1-4 v Top 50 and 9-5 total v Top 100. The Valley was surprisingly solid that year, featuring 4 other top 100 teams besides us. We were clearly punished because our NCSOS was a pitiful 294. https://rpiarchive.ncaa.org/Stats%20...20by%20RPI.pdf

[ShockerFever]

I'm not sure if @CBB_Fan is going to respond or not to my previous post. I'll go ahead and clarify a couple things. @ShockerFever, you'll enjoy this.

Earlier in this thread, I caught @CBB_Fan 's mistake identifying 2011 WSU as KenPom #25, when in reality that was their post-NIT championship ranking, and #56 was their selection sunday rank. Big difference, and he never responded to admit his error. Normally I would chalk this up to a simple mistake, but then he posted the team A vs team B blind resume comparison, and I found some funny business going on.

Resume B is clearly 2016 WSU, and the numbers appear accurate.

Based on previous conversation in this thread and numerous similarities, it is obvious that resume A is an "ATTEMPT" at 2011 WSU's resume. @CBB_Fan was clearly intending to show similarities between this year's resume and the NIT champs from 5 years ago. However, in regards to the 2011 resume he identified...

He overstated RPI by 8 spots. It was 60, not 52. I verified this with 2 different RPI sources.
He overstated SOS by 11 spots. It was 107, not 96. I verified this with 2 different RPI sources.
He wildly overstated OOC SOS. I can not find old OOC SOS data on any RPI sites, but KenPom's site ranks it #266. That team played 7 non-con games vs teams 200+, so we know the OOC SOS had to have been pretty poor. How @CBB_Fan came up with a rank of 55 is beyond me.
He was very close on scoring margin, but I calculate +10, not +11. Rounding error, or fudging the numbers ever so slightly to favor his argument?
Wins/losses match exactly, and I mean EXACTLY, with 1 exception. The loss to #6 was really to #14. Otherwise, team A matches perfectly with 2011 WSU. I guess he assumed no one would notice the one tweak. The precise matches of every other win and loss to the RPI data I found is what tells me that he absolutely didn't make up resume A out of thin air. He used 2011 WSU and then modified it.

So, I'd love to hear a response from the man himself. You followed up a big mistake on KenPom ranking (25 vs 56) with a full "resume" of the 2011 team, tweaking the data on nearly every line making that team look better than they were. All the errors were subtle, except the OOC SOS, which was drastically wrong. Had you not been so wildly inacurrate on OOC SOS, I might not have caught your other, smaller tweaks, at all.

@CBB_Fan, it really does appear that you are being dishonest to try and support your case that 2016 WSU is in danger of looking like 2011 WSU and going to the NIT. I hesitated to make this accusation, but you've had 24 hours and not responded to my original request in post #40 of this thread. I'm willing to hear you out if you have a legitimate defense, and I'll be anxiously waiting until then.

Sincerely,

A fan of the truth

I'm a little appalled at CBB Fan's attempt to make a point by pulling inaccuracies to beef up his side of the argument. It was still a horrible one regardless but wow. Didn't think he was changing facts to try and prove that WSU is an NIT team. That's some kinda fandom right there.

Masterful job. Expect no response or a change of subject.

[WuShock16]

Also people tend to romanticize 2011 as the team who got snubbed because they won the NIT, but really the team that got snubbed(if you could say that one was) was the year before. RPI of 43, 1-4 v Top 50 and 9-5 total v Top 100. The Valley was surprisingly solid that year, featuring 4 other top 100 teams besides us. We were clearly punished because our NCSOS was a pitiful 294. https://rpiarchive.ncaa.org/Stats Li...tty by RPI.pdf

Yes, 2010 was hurt by horrid non-conference scheduling and some bad losses...headlined by the loss at Evansville, which Lutz called one of the worst losses in WSU history.

2011 was characterized as the year of missed opportunities. We got SCREWED against UConn. We played pretty well at San Diego State but had a bad stretch of a couple minutes, which spelled our doom. We had two close losses versus Missouri State. We had another questionable reffing outcome against VCU. Finally, we still had a chance to win in STL and led Indiana State in the semifinal before we fell apart. As Gregg said many times during the NIT stretch, we needed to bloom where we were planted. Frankly, we didn't deserve to be in the NCAA with all the missed opportunities that we had. Thankfully, the guys took it upon themselves to make the best of the situation and cut down the nets at MSG.