UNI @ WSU Game Thread

[im4wsu]

What is the source for the missed layups stats?

UNI played their kind of game. Low scoring, low number of personal fouls, low number of turnovers, three balls and tough defense. This has been their formula for a long time.

Sometimes even when a team shoots poorly, it still wins, unless fate steps in. In our game last night, we had 3 three balls go in and pop out.

UNI had 1 offensive rebound! Only 1. The Shocks had 20 offensive rebounds. The Shocks out rebounded the Cats by 21! In personal fouls and turnovers, the Shocks probably had one of their best games.

I just have to wonder about fate.

I love ShockerRef, but I do not agree with him on the call against #23 for charging #11. I thought it was blatant blocking by #11. Not a close call either.

Source for layup is the play-by-play as posted on goshockers.com

[ShockRef]

I agree that that is the way it should be called and in real time I thought it was a charge. I would have wanted a charge call if he roles had been reversed. That said, while it may be a POE this year it certainly has not been implemented uniformly nor consistently and that is what is most irritating to me. That is not all but it is enough for now.

Fair enough. All valid and reasonable points.

Thank you.

That is all.

[ShockRef]

RDR,
Appreciate the love, even if you don't agree with the call and analysis.

Maybe we will cross paths in STL.

That is all.

[shocka khan]

I'm wondering if the way we play against the zone has become too predictable, that other Valley teams have found a flaw in it , and they are exploiting it.

Frankamp has been a disappointment so far - he's not the zone buster we thought he'd be, but Baker did not help us on Saturday, as he's not playing up to the All-American level we expected.

Also, there have been way too many gaps in offensive flow when Fred is in the game. I don't think he's close to elite in his command of the game and keeping the offense flowing, although he does the other things well.

I hope coach gets this fixed or we will seriously under-achieve in the tourney.

[Slalomshocker]

Okay, a couple posters have taken exception to the thought that our coaching staff struggles with zone. Yes the team missed a ton of open looks from 3, but what do you do when you cant hit a shot to save your life? Keep firing away? How many times did we see Baker at the elbow to break down the defense and get that 15ft jumper? I dont recall any, maybe 1?? The point is Coach can tell these guys what to do, and if they do not do it, he can find someone that will. There are too many guys on the bench that would love to be in the game, and do exactly as Marshall asks. If the point is that the posts weren't getting position, get Hamilton in the game and tell him he better get position. I will give you that its the lack of execution, but I stand by my opinion 110% that this is on the coaching staff for not ensuring the players are making the correct plays. This team is not a great 3pt shooting team, when they are having an off night, its time to get inside the arc. Heck, bring out Aaron Ellis and have him stand ON the 3pt line, at least it will go in the box score as a 2pt attempt. Tired of watching Ron and Fred pass the ball back and forth 25ft from the basket against a zone. The principles of zone offense are actually quite simple. The penalty for not executing the zone offense should be equal to that of not executing the defense.

[Slalomshocker]

One other thought about it. The complaint that the posts weren't getting position... How are they supposed to get position when they are constantly out top screening the top of the zone so that Fred can try and penetrate? Shaq Morris is a capable offensive post player. He made a beautiful pass out of a double team early in the first half, and has been a decent passer all season. Koch had 3 fouls early on, there should have been a major emphasis on going to the post. And before you say the posts weren't getting position, the guards refused to give them the ball when they did have position so what did it matter?

[shocka khan]

Okay, a couple posters have taken exception to the thought that our coaching staff struggles with zone. Yes the team missed a ton of open looks from 3, but what do you do when you cant hit a shot to save your life? Keep firing away? How many times did we see Baker at the elbow to break down the defense and get that 15ft jumper? I dont recall any, maybe 1?? The point is Coach can tell these guys what to do, and if they do not do it, he can find someone that will. There are too many guys on the bench that would love to be in the game, and do exactly as Marshall asks. If the point is that the posts weren't getting position, get Hamilton in the game and tell him he better get position. I will give you that its the lack of execution, but I stand by my opinion 110% that this is on the coaching staff for not ensuring the players are making the correct plays. This team is not a great 3pt shooting team, when they are having an off night, its time to get inside the arc. Heck, bring out Aaron Ellis and have him stand ON the 3pt line, at least it will go in the box score as a 2pt attempt. Tired of watching Ron and Fred pass the ball back and forth 25ft from the basket against a zone. The principles of zone offense are actually quite simple. The penalty for not executing the zone offense should be equal to that of not executing the defense.

Yeah, like that's going to happen. How many poor shooting games has our 5th year senior had and how many more will be have until he gets subbed out? I haven't seen it yet,. All I see is the newsprint HCGM has fed to Mark Adams, who is almost trying so sell us on the fact that he's a great player. He's a more than adequate role player, but certainly not great,

[pinstripers]

I am curious as to how many times we flung up a 30-footer in order to avoid a shot clock violation?

[Kel Varnsen]

I am curious as to how many times we flung up a 30-footer in order to avoid a shot clock violation?

3 or 4 by my estimation.

[shockmonster]

I'm going to give UNI some props. First of all, obviously they have the talent to win big games and have beaten some pretty good teams.

WSU has a couple of different offenses to attack zones. They haven't looked good the past couple of games and UNI knows us very well and are aware of how we attack zones. They know us very well and did a nice job of counteracting our offenses. Maybe we need another way to do it but when teams played zone against us earlier this year, we didn't struggle.

We are in a lull or valley right now. I hope our coaching staff who many on here feels are weak at attacking zones aren't as prone to bipolar episodes as some Shockernetters.

[Dave Stalwart]

I'm going to give UNI some props. First of all, obviously they have the talent to win big games and have beaten some pretty good teams.

WSU has a couple of different offenses to attack zones. They haven't looked good the past couple of games and UNI knows us very well and are aware of how we attack zones. They know us very well and did a nice job of counteracting our offenses. Maybe we need another way to do it but when teams played zone against us earlier this year, we didn't struggle.

We are in a lull or valley right now. I hope our coaching staff who many on here feels are weak at attacking zones aren't as prone to bipolar episodes as some Shockernetters.

I always expected UNI to finish way higher than what it looked like through the first 9 games. They came dangerously close to falling apart, but now, all the sudden they are playing at the level expected. They pulled a classic, MVC style Evansville'ing of WSU. I think they will do very well to close out the season going forward. They may finish as high as 2nd place when all is said and done. Evansville, SIU, Illinois State and UNI all face each other in one way or another down the stretch. WSU, however has already almost completed all of it's games against the upper half. As odd as it sounds, some of the records we see near the top may be a tad inflated still based on the way the schedule has gone.

And I'm still expecting Illinois State to drop a couple games coming up while UNI ends up being the biggest winner down the stretch. Illinois State has ISUb, @UNI, SIU and here at CKA to complete MVC play. They may not win again and 2-2 would be considered a good showing against that schedule. I'm predicting a 2-3 way tie for second place at something like 12-6. Meanwhile, WSU will hold on to go 16-2 and everything will look right in the world again. That's my hope at least.

When you look at the schedules for each of the remaining teams in the upper half, you will agree with me. Evansville should go 3-1 or 4-0, SIU should go 3-1 or 2-2, Illinois State should go 2-2 or even 1-3, UNI should go 3-1 or maybe even 4-0 if they are who they seem to be lately. And WSU should absolutely go 4-0, barring a complete meltdown.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

I'm going to give UNI some props. First of all, obviously they have the talent to win big games and have beaten some pretty good teams.

Vs UNI
UNC scored 67
Iowa State scored 79
WSU scored 50, at home.

The Shox joined Bradley and Drake as the only teams all year to fail to score more than 50 on UNI. UNI has talent to score. Some games they do score, some games they don't. They beat UNC and ISU by scoring more than 1 pt/possession in those games. They beat the Shox in a 59 possession game with only 53 points. Sad.

[shoxlax]

Vs UNI
UNC scored 67
Iowa State scored 79
WSU scored 50, at home.

The Shox joined Bradley and Drake as the only teams all year to fail to score more than 50 on UNI. UNI has talent to score. Some games they do score, some games they don't. They beat UNC and ISU by scoring more than 1 pt/possession in those games. They beat the Shox in a 59 possession game with only 53 points. Sad.

and we held them to 15 points in the second half and outrebounded them by 20...really sad.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

I have no complaints about the defense. It is one of the elite defenses in the country.

It is the offense that scored 53 and 50 against two defenses that are weaker than anybody the Shox are likely to face in March.

[pinstripers]

We did give up 38 in the first half at home.