UNI @ WSU Game Thread

[im4wsu]

1. Don't assign blame to RN
2. Face it - Fred and Ron are under achieving on offense 8-31
3. No ball movement means poor shots, poor shots means low shooting %
4. How many times has Fred driven and thrown up bad shots when he should have kicked it out?
5. AG had two good minutes
6. I think we ARE on the bubble with other bubble teams doing well so far today
7. Need to win out............period

Missed 15 of 22 layups. That ball movement didn't work out so well. http://shockernet.net/forum/showthre...l=1#post629785

[asiseeit]

What ball movement? There has not been much of it. That is the problem. You have to make a
zone move/react to create shooting space.

[bleed yellow]

I'm really starting to wonder if this year's team just had too much pressure on it.. Ron played all summer, Fred may have worked a little too hard in the off season, Conner becoming eligible with high expectations.
With all that I'm not buying Lutz's theory that they are a tired team. It just isn't physically possible. Maybe they are mentally tired of the pressure though?
The start of the season was a disaster and was largely blamed on Fred's injury.
I really wondered though if this team could really be that bad without him. And as we saw yesterday, if he isn't playing well, game over.
I don't think it's because they are literally that bad without Fred, but rather there is simply a void with the Sophomores and the post and it's extremely vexing to say the least.
This team won't make it to the Sweet 16 unless Marshall can conjure something up, but even more concerning, what happens next year? A team simply can't have 3 or 4 juniors that aren't effective.

[shoxlax]

@bleed yellow: all good points. The margin of error became slim when we olé'd Orlando. The return of Fred made all the difference in the world to the point that coaches and players alike probably thought problem solved. Now we have figured out that is not the case and we have other issues. Pressure mounting. We need to win at least six in a row now to feel good about our at large chances and bury the regular season. This is truly pressure now. If we don't win out in the regular season another level of pressure will kick in to win a tourney we normally suck in.

So if your theory is right we will know soon enough brother

[shoxlax]

I like our Sophomores but let me give you another theory.

They are best when playing a different tempo than we play with Ron and Fred. Next year we will have to change or at least tweak what we've been doing for three years to maximize our talent

[im4wsu]

We made 7 of 22 layups. Fred (1-8) Morris (0-2) Wessel (0-1) Grady (1-2) McDuffie (1-2) Baker (2-4) Kelly (1-2) Brown (1-1). Make 3/4 of 22 attempts to be 16 of 22, we'd have 18 more points AND out 3-pt shooters would be a tad bit more open!

On the season, we make 54.8% of layups. In this game, that average would translate into five more layups and 10 more points.

Fred on the season is 30 of 87 for 34.5%.

[bleed yellow]

I like our Sophomores but let me give you another theory.

They are best when playing a different tempo than we play with Ron and Fred. Next year we will have to change or at least tweak what we've been doing for three years to maximize our talent

I think a couple of players will be transferring after the season. If you're the coach making the kind of money Marshall is, do you take a chance on them? I'm just saying it's very frustrating that Fred has to play his A game to get the entire team rolling.

[proshox]

I think a couple of players will be transferring after the season. If you're the coach making the kind of money Marshall is, do you take a chance on them? I'm just saying it's very frustrating that Fred has to play his A game to get the entire team rolling.

Fred doesn't have to have an A game for us to succeed, but he must do a better job of creating tempo and movement so that others can succeed.

[ISASO]

When will we stop wasting 15 seconds of the shot clock, passing side to side 25 feet from the basket, showing no intent to threaten the basket?

[Topshock]

And your analyis is spot on. WW was back pedaling and giving ground. It is a POE this year not to penalize defenders who are giving ground and the offensive player initiates contact. That is exactly what happened on this play and was called correctly.

FVV initiated all contact on the play to a defender who had a legal guarding position and was giving ground. He made a bad decision, on top of numerous ones.

WSU played their second bad game in a week and their kryptonite has been exposed. The fact they did not respond, AGAIN, after what happened last Saturday is the greatest concern.

That is all.

Unfortunately, over and over and over it has not been called this way by officials this year.

[im4wsu]

Thoughts from watching the game in person:

Ron came out of huddle shaking and then looking at left hand/wrist. Is something bothering him? Does it affect shooting? Can he get zip on passes like he normally would? I've noticed this many times during home games and even in Orlando.

Rashard needs to be getting more than two shots in his minutes.

Can't wait to see McDuffie gain some body and hand strength.

Nearly all of the 3-pt shots were reasonably good looks. So were most of the 15 missed layups. The latter is concentration and patience.

Fred is Fred. When others are not getting it done, he tries to take over. He was 0-2 in the first half, with assist and turnover. In the 2nd half he was 3-13, two assists and two turnovers.

I'm not fond of Paul Janssen or Kipp Kipinger, either, for that matter.

Although no breakways -- UNI does not turn the ball over much -- we scored quickly when we scored, it seemed to me. First 10 minutes was a race. Our comeback seemed to be scoring before UNI got set in their defense.

[ShockdaWorld]

There is just no excuse for WSU to lose to a 125th RPI ranked UNI on WSU's home court.
This is our Stars, Baker & Van Fleets Senior year. We have run out of excuses, this was just bad.

You had me at Van Fleets

[ShockdaWorld]

I am NOT saying I think our team will be better without Ron and Fred. I AM saying that I think this year's freshmen and sophomores will be more effective without Ron and Fred. Too many guys seem to just stand around and wait for them to do something while they dribble around and pass the ball back and forth until the shot clock forces them to do something. The scary part is quite often it looks a lot like they're doing exactly what they've been told to do. When the AA guard combo moves on, the younger guys will be forced to step up without somebody to push the pressure onto. I think several of them will accept that change with confidence and step up nicely. Many of them have already shown signs of great futures, and with more responsibility, they will show even more of those signs.

[proshox]

I am NOT saying I think our team will be better without Ron and Fred. I AM saying that I think this year's freshmen and sophomores will be more effective without Ron and Fred. Too many guys seem to just stand around and wait for them to do something while they dribble around and pass the ball back and forth until the shot clock forces them to do something. The scary part is quite often it looks a lot like they're doing exactly what they've been told to do. When the AA guard combo moves on, the younger guys will be forced to step up without somebody to push the pressure onto. I think several of them will accept that change with confidence and step up nicely. Many of them have already shown signs of great futures, and with more responsibility, they will show even more of those signs.

there are times where passing to teammates not named Baker / VanVleet is a play of last resort.

[forevershockerfan]

Thoughts from watching the game in person:

Ron came out of huddle shaking and then looking at left hand/wrist. Is something bothering him? Does it affect shooting? Can he get zip on passes like he normally would? I've noticed this many times during home games and even in Orlando.

Rashard needs to be getting more than two shots in his minutes.

Can't wait to see McDuffie gain some body and hand strength.

Nearly all of the 3-pt shots were reasonably good looks. So were most of the 15 missed layups. The latter is concentration and patience.

Fred is Fred. When others are not getting it done, he tries to take over. He was 0-2 in the first half, with assist and turnover. In the 2nd half he was 3-13, two assists and two turnovers.

I'm not fond of Paul Janssen or Kipp Kipinger, either, for that matter.

Although no breakways -- UNI does not turn the ball over much -- we scored quickly when we scored, it seemed to me. First 10 minutes was a race. Our comeback seemed to be scoring before UNI got set in their defense.

It is difficult to win, even at home shooting .303%. From the 4 slot, Wessel had 0 points and 5-rb in 24 minutes and Kelly had 2 points and 4-rbs on 11 minutes. We could use more scoring from the 4 slot starting Monday night. How often will CF shoot 0-5? At home, he is still struggling, but even so, if ever put in the situation we were again with Baker's and CF late 3 point opportunities, my money is on at least one or both shots going in.

We could have withstood either Carlson 12 points or Lohaus 11, but with our shooting woes both inside and outside, not this time. Last time when we beat them, Koch was their surprise producer but he had just 6 points in this game but was 4-4 on free-throws. Shaq goes 3-4 on throws and not one other Shocker makes it to the line? Yikes!! Thus, in a close game, UNI goes 8-9 on throws and Shaq goes 3-4? Yes, we got hacked inside with some froze up whistles but we must draw fouls more than this. As similar to the Seton Hall game, FVV got no whistles on his penetrating moves. This too is rare.