WSU is a very balanced team

[ShockdaWorld]

When discussing games played away from home in November, I think Shocker fans know very well what can happen when your stud senior guard is injured.

Just sayin'... I don't put much stock into those outcomes.

I agree that both of those teams probably beat UNI with their starting point guards. UNI doesn't play great defense. Washpun was able to have good games (at least partly due to the other missing pg's), and neither of those teams play good defense either, so UNI was able to get hot shooting the ball without being challenged. I think either of those teams are beatable by a good offense and a great defense.

[ShockdaWorld]

I'm glad you admit that there isn't a metric that clearly identifies these "elite" teams and that you are identifying them by the eye test. However, you have never identified any of the elite teams. Would you please let us in on your evaluation of the elite teams you are talking about?

I actually saw him list out four or five a day or two ago. I didn't necessarily agree with all of them (Maryland), but he did list them out.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Here's an interesting follow-up stat. KenPom shows data for the past 14 years. 10 of the 14 national champs were top 15 in both offensive and defensive efficiency. Streaky UConn was the furthest away, ranked #39 on offense in 2014.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

I'm glad you admit that there isn't a metric that clearly identifies these "elite" teams and that you are identifying them by the eye test. However, you have never identified any of the elite teams. Would you please let us in on your evaluation of the elite teams you are talking about?

http://shockernet.net/forum/showthread.php?21148-UNI-game-threadLet&p=620419&viewfull=1#post620419

[FlyingWheat]

I'm 99% sure that they do not adjust for injuries or for Connor.

No, but it is factored into the Luck column. You'll see where we rank there :) and it has risen significantly from earlier in the year.

[_kai_]

Here is my opinion on a deep NCAA run. The issue will be depth in the post. But I think we have the opportunity to develop a rotation even better than Chadrack/Kadeem/Darius that one year.

Shaq and Anton are by far our best post players, and if Shaq keeps developing at the rate he has from the beginning of the season to now, he will be solid from here on out. Anton just needs a little confidence back on his shot, and he'll be good. The issue is the drop off when those two aren't playing. There HAS to be one more guy to step up and play big minutes and thrive. If that doesn't happen, I think we get eroded late in a game against a post heavy team. If someone like Rashard, Rauno, or even Bush step up to make that drop off less than it is currently, that rotation could be better than the undefeated 3 headed monster.

Hell, maybe even McDuffie getting some minutes at the 4 would add an extra element to the post depth.

editing the end to add another thought: I think the best bet honestly is Rashard putting it all together. I think if he can take his missed opportunities around the rim, and halve them, he would be scoring almost 10pts a game. I think he will put it all together here shortly. The only downside to that is we'd be running a relatively short post rotation with Kelly/Shaq/Grady it would be nice to get Rauno or Bush polished up.

[Cdizzle]

Here's an interesting follow-up stat. KenPom shows data for the past 14 years. 10 of the 14 national champs were top 15 in both offensive and defensive efficiency. Streaky UConn was the furthest away, ranked #39 on offense in 2014.

Yep. It's pretty telling that WSU is approaching that, even with all the disruption early in the year. Between how terrible things were in November, and the development of McDuffie and Frankamp, I can see the AdjO (currently 25) continuing to head in that direction.

Generally speaking, I think we're less far apart than is being made out, but with some not insignificant differences (I'd take WSU over Maryland every day of the week and twice on Sundays).

My prediction: By the end of the year WSU shows the nation that there was an elite team all along, they just weren't healthy til March/April.

[1972Shocker]

3. UNI's Koch exposed our biggest weakness which is post defense

I think two factors contributed to UNI's Koch's relative success against the Shocks. I say relative success because a 14 point outing isn't exactly going crazy -- only 4 more points then Shaq scored -- so it was a little more than a wash.

The main factor IMO was how the Shocks (and most teams most likely would as well) chose to defend UNI. The focus was on defending the 3-point line and trying to keep Washpun drives into the lane under control. Because of that our guards and wings were not really digging down on post possessions like they often do and which was a key factor in holding Zimmerman, Poeltl and Mockevicius below their averages.

Another factor was the way the referees where calling the game inside. I don't think the calls particularly favored either team but it did work somewhat to Koch's benefit because he is such a good FT shooter. He scored 8 of his 14 points from the line. As others have pointed out he was only 3-9 from the field.

I am not saying the Shockers post players are great individual defenders. However, I don't think Bennett Koch necessarily exposed anything that wasn't already known. From my perspective it was more about the Shockers not wanting UNI's guards and wings to beat us from the perimeter and wanting to make it difficult for Washpun to get to the basket.

[WuDrWu]

Here is my opinion on a deep NCAA run. The issue will be depth in the post. But I think we have the opportunity to develop a rotation even better than Chadrack/Kadeem/Darius that one year.

Shaq and Anton are by far our best post players, and if Shaq keeps developing at the rate he has from the beginning of the season to now, he will be solid from here on out. Anton just needs a little confidence back on his shot, and he'll be good. The issue is the drop off when those two aren't playing. There HAS to be one more guy to step up and play big minutes and thrive. If that doesn't happen, I think we get eroded late in a game against a post heavy team. If someone like Rashard, Rauno, or even Bush step up to make that drop off less than it is currently, that rotation could be better than the undefeated 3 headed monster.

Hell, maybe even McDuffie getting some minutes at the 4 would add an extra element to the post depth.

editing the end to add another thought: I think the best bet honestly is Rashard putting it all together. I think if he can take his missed opportunities around the rim, and halve them, he would be scoring almost 10pts a game. I think he will put it all together here shortly. The only downside to that is we'd be running a relatively short post rotation with Kelly/Shaq/Grady it would be nice to get Rauno or Bush polished up.

Excellent point. You ARE going to see more of VanVleet, Baker, Frankamp and McDuffie on the floor at the same time, with different 5s. We're going to give teams some different looks that they may not particularly like.

And I don't mean Missouri State and UNI.

I love the way this team is trending right now. I hope they can continue to get healthier and develop. It's taking most of my discipline to keep from making a serious, public prediction about this team right now.

[jdshock]

It's taking most of my discipline to keep from making a serious, public prediction about this team right now.

When you do get your prediction in, make sure you've already gotten your personal bets out there. After the FF run, I think shockernet alone may swing the Vegas lines based on what you say.

[AndShock]

You can get Wichita State to win the title at 80/1 right now. I got it preseason at 33/1. I was too depressed to look at what it was after Orlando.

[Kung Wu]

Here is my opinion on a deep NCAA run. The issue will be depth in the post. But I think we have the opportunity to develop a rotation even better than Chadrack/Kadeem/Darius that one year.

Shaq and Anton are by far our best post players, and if Shaq keeps developing at the rate he has from the beginning of the season to now, he will be solid from here on out. Anton just needs a little confidence back on his shot, and he'll be good. The issue is the drop off when those two aren't playing. There HAS to be one more guy to step up and play big minutes and thrive. If that doesn't happen, I think we get eroded late in a game against a post heavy team. If someone like Rashard, Rauno, or even Bush step up to make that drop off less than it is currently, that rotation could be better than the undefeated 3 headed monster.

Hell, maybe even McDuffie getting some minutes at the 4 would add an extra element to the post depth.

editing the end to add another thought: I think the best bet honestly is Rashard putting it all together. I think if he can take his missed opportunities around the rim, and halve them, he would be scoring almost 10pts a game. I think he will put it all together here shortly. The only downside to that is we'd be running a relatively short post rotation with Kelly/Shaq/Grady it would be nice to get Rauno or Bush polished up.

This is spot on, with one additional thought. I believe the Valley refs call a tighter game than NCAA tournament refs do. That changes things up a bit and allows Grady and Shaq to be on the floor longer, which mitigates (somewhat) the need for our third big to step up as prominently.

[ROOT ANGRY!]

[QUOTE=WuDrWu;620762]Excellent point. You ARE going to see more of VanVleet, Baker, Frankamp and McDuffie on the floor at the same time, with different 5s. We're going to give teams some different looks that they may not particularly like.
The thought of throwing that lineup out there, and subbing in Zach, Evan and Landry, has me giddy.

[Shocker-maniac]

I think two factors contributed to UNI's Koch's relative success against the Shocks. I say relative success because a 14 point outing isn't exactly going crazy -- only 4 more points then Shaq scored -- so it was a little more than a wash.

The main factor IMO was how the Shocks (and most teams most likely would as well) chose to defend UNI. The focus was on defending the 3-point line and trying to keep Washpun drives into the lane under control. Because of that our guards and wings were not really digging down on post possessions like they often do and which was a key factor in holding Zimmerman, Poeltl and Mockevicius below their averages.

Another factor was the way the referees where calling the game inside. I don't think the calls particularly favored either team but it did work somewhat to Koch's benefit because he is such a good FT shooter. He scored 8 of his 14 points from the line. As others have pointed out he was only 3-9 from the field.

I am not saying the Shockers post players are great individual defenders. However, I don't think Bennett Koch necessarily exposed anything that wasn't already known. From my perspective it was more about the Shockers not wanting UNI's guards and wings to beat us from the perimeter and wanting to make it difficult for Washpun to get to the basket.

Spot on!

[DwShock]

Here is my thoughts/hopes for this team. I believe that Marshall at the end of the season looks back and no matter how it actually ends be that a win or a loss says "I live it when a plan comes together" and then Shaq looks at him and says "I ain't gettin on no plane, fool."

It's already been a long year. Things haven't gone the way we all thought they would but things happen for a reason and this team keeps getting better each and every second, minute, hour everyday, every game.