Fred likely out till December 5th, Saint Louis

[Shock-Til-You-Drop]

We have nothing to worry about in St. Louis this year....Bob Lutz said he thought our 3rd team could win the Valley!

[ShockdaWorld]

We have nothing to worry about in St. Louis this year....Bob Lutz said he thought our 3rd team could win the Valley!

I still think that is something of a possibility if it was our third team in March rather than our third team right now. We've got some incredibly talented and athletic kids. It's just a matter of how quickly and how well they are able to "get it."

[asiseeit]

Next question. Have there been any details released regarding CT, MRI and Ultrasound as to
how bad the injury was initially and where it is today. I guess what I am saying is if we can tell
how far along the healing process is via these tests any decision to play or not play should be
determined by the medical folks. It is always their nature to be conservative. Fred is one
question mark, no doubt, but we have more at positions four and five where we have been very weak.
CF will undoubtedly help at point allowing RB to play SG, but we have to get MUCH better play at
the front line positions to keep our losses at a minimum. PG is NOT our only issue.

[Wild Heiny]

I agree with this, but also with having Fred on the bench. If he's given the green light to play, and the docs say he's 100%, I'd sit him on the bench anyway. Let JRS or TT start at the 1 (probably JRS unless TT has been showing something in practice). Let Ron start at the 2. IF it looks like we need FVV to settle things down or get things going (AND HE'S 100%), then bring him in. Otherwise, give him another five days to get back into shape.

ShockdaWorld, are you JRS' agent? You push this guy hard and by all accounts he is a good young man, but I don't see anything in his game that warrants additional playing time.

[Cdizzle]

ShockdaWorld, are you JRS' agent? You push this guy hard and by all accounts he is a good young man, but I don't see anything in his game that warrants additional playing time.

I am not a huge JRS proponent. I'm not one that thinks he would start for a hundred other D1 teams.

That being said, in the past couple of games, the score has had a tendency to go more in our favor during the minutes he is in the game, as compared to the available alternatives.

[shock]

CRAP!!! I thought she said take PCP!!!

- What do you have there?

- Oh, just a gallon of PCP

[AZ Shocker]

You put the All-American back in the line-up (when healthy of course)...and you will see a greatly enhanced productive front line. Kelly, McDuffie, Brown the 7 footer and even Hamilton will be all much better for it. Shaq...probably not so much.

[ShockdaWorld]

ShockdaWorld, are you JRS' agent? You push this guy hard and by all accounts he is a good young man, but I don't see anything in his game that warrants additional playing time.

I'm by no means his agent, nor do I think he should take someone's scholarship or anything like that, but if you don't see anything that warrants more playing time for him, then perhaps you should watch a little more game film. Right now, and for as long as FVV can't go, he's the best option we have to play the point without moving our AA shooting guard out of position. I believe that TT2 will be a good option at the point eventually, but he's just not ready yet. THAT is what warrants more playing time for JRS.

[_kai_]

but if you don't see anything that warrants more playing time for him, then perhaps you should watch a little more game film..

I'm not trying to be an ass with this reply, but if that's true, then are the coaches who decide playing time not watching the game film? Because if watching game film would make someone realize JRS needs more playing time, then what are the decision makers doing?

The problem with the roster right now is a lack of point production. JRS is simply the least capable guard on the team in terms of scoring.

[Cdizzle]

I'm not trying to be an ass with this reply, but if that's true, then are the coaches who decide playing time not watching the game film? Because if watching game film would make someone realize JRS needs more playing time, then what are the decision makers doing?

The problem with the roster right now is a lack of point production. JRS is simply the least capable guard on the team in terms of scoring.

What about PG playing time in the 2nd half of the Iowa game? Seems like the coaches were starting to try something different, and the returns were better. For as much as JRS is not a scorer (and he isn't, at all), this year he really is doing a pretty good job of actually executing some offense. If the alternative option is both not scoring and not running offense, I'm not sure you're really gaining anything.

Time will tell. Hopefully it doesn't matter at all in a few days and we get to watch an AA play at that position. And Taylor certainly has a higher ceiling and will continue to get reps in an effort to see him approach it.

[ShockdaWorld]

I'm not trying to be an ass with this reply, but if that's true, then are the coaches who decide playing time not watching the game film? Because if watching game film would make someone realize JRS needs more playing time, then what are the decision makers doing?

The problem with the roster right now is a lack of point production. JRS is simply the least capable guard on the team in terms of scoring.

You got me. He was being an ass, so I was being an ass in return. I'm sure they are watching film, and I'm sure they are doing everything they can to develop Ty as quickly as possible. But, as someone else stated, the score seems to tilt a bit in the right direction when JRS is in the game with Ron being able to play the 2. Ron is unable to play the 2 with Ty at the point right now, because Ty hasn't learned how to run the offense. Either way, I'm not JRS agent. I don't think he's a great player. I think TT will be better. He's just not right now. So I guess it's just another of the multitude of tough decisions 3G has to make. Continue to struggle to develop what could be the PG of the future that doesn't know the offense yet, continue to soften up both guard spots by having his AA SG play point, or plug in JRS, who knows the system and can run the plays, but will never be a high level talent or scorer. OR, better than any of those options, just hope like hell that FVV is 100% for the rest of the season and those decisions don't have to be made.

[WSUwatcher]

I don't think the number of minutes will be the problem. Its how hard that Fred goes. He could be in 1 minute and drive hard and tweak his hamstring again if its not ready. He could be in 30 minutes and be fine if he is going 50%. The reason you have to leave him out until he is ready is that Fred is going to give 110% no matter what his body is telling him.

Good point about the amount of time, Stick. He reportedly tweaked his hamstring within a few minutes of starting the scrimmage against Oklahoma State. It's not just how long you go, but also how you go, and FVV is pretty intense.

[WSUwatcher]

I am not a huge JRS proponent. I'm not one that thinks he would start for a hundred other D1 teams.

That being said, in the past couple of games, the score has had a tendency to go more in our favor during the minutes he is in the game, as compared to the available alternatives.

Yes, dizzle -- the question is, what's the best alternative? Is it Taylor at PG with Baker at SG but shooting more often than Ron does, Taylor at SG with Baker out of position, or Simon at PG with Ron doing what he does best? Of course, defense has to be taken into consideration, too. And finally, the other question is, if we can figure this out, how much more quickly and thoroughly have the coaches already figured it out and analyzed it up one side and down the other?

[Kung Wu]

I don't know any answers, but when FVV is back, I have a feeling our backup PGs will be a LOT more effective when FVV is getting a breather -- that's a darn good thing that not a lot of other teams will have going for them come tournament time. Sorta like when FVV was able to give Malcolm some decent rest.

[WSUwatcher]

If Fred isn't even at full practice speed, there is just little chance he'll play in St Louis. I'll be really surprised if he even suits up.

Absolutely, kai. If he isn't in practice shape already, it's hard to imagine he'll be in game shape Saturday.

Still, the Shocks are capable of winning at St. Louis without him, and them the Connercavalry arrives -- hopefully for UNLV if his profs are Shocker fans. And here's a little sunshine pumping: if FVV isn't ready yet by Frankamp's first game, Conner will start at PG, play 25+ minutes, and be the best Shocker on the floor except for Baker.