Fred likely out till December 5th, Saint Louis

[XManCometh]

One thing we have to realize is that HCGM and staff will have a week to evaluate tape and get into the lab to mess with the formula. I don't know if we win on Saturday, but don't be surprised if we see a different product on the floor. We can't shoot much worse...so there is plenty of upside.

You can't suddenly gain good post players in a week, unfortunately. Or good shooters.

We've become a 3-point heaving team that hopes to make 40% to win, and we don't ever get to the line because of it. Until FVV is 100% and Conner shows up, we have one guy the opponent can double all the time (Ron) and one guy nobody even has to guard (Wessel). If Wessel and Bush are in the game at the same time, that's 40% of the lineup that is no factor on offense.

This team has a lot more issues than just not having FVV. Players that were supposed to contribute aren't contributing whatsoever, and that's very troubling. Can HCGM recruit big men? Because we have zero and the cupboard has been bare for awhile now outside of JUCO band-aids and a few guys like Stutz and Durley.

The only thing we can change right now is to tell our guys to stop being so infatuated with the 3-pointer. Maybe getting into the paint will allow us to get more free points...... obviously.

I hate to be the bad news guy, but we're going to have to basically go nearly undefeated the rest of the way or win our conference tournament to get into the NCAAs. You can't lose 4 straight games early in the season in the MVC and hope to get an at-large with 7-8 losses.

Yea, a little of this is probably an over-reaction on my part, but most of it is 100% true unfortunately.

[shocksrbest]

Its a snowball affect. When you have multiple threats from outside (more than just Ron), You are going to hit a few more 3s. When you hit more threes, the defense will be more stingy at the arc. When they move out to the arc, the spacing improves allowing the big men to get position where they can go up for a shot without the defense collapsing. If the defense collapses, that 3 point shooter is now open.

We didn't have any consistency this weekend shooting, so they had no problem collapsing.

True. Seemed like Grady was doubled every time he touched it early in the tournament...pretty easy to do when there is not a consistent outside threat.

[wufan]

You can't suddenly gain good post players in a week, unfortunately. Or good shooters.

We've become a 3-point heaving team that hopes to make 40% to win, and we don't ever get to the line because of it. Until FVV is 100% and Conner shows up, we have one guy the opponent can double all the time (Ron) and one guy nobody even has to guard (Wessel). If Wessel and Bush are in the game at the same time, that's 40% of the lineup that is no factor on offense.

This team has a lot more issues than just not having FVV. Players that were supposed to contribute aren't contributing whatsoever, and that's very troubling. Can HCGM recruit big men? Because we have zero and the cupboard has been bare for awhile now outside of JUCO band-aids and a few guys like Stutz and Durley.

The only thing we can change right now is to tell our guys to stop being so infatuated with the 3-pointer. Maybe getting into the paint will allow us to get more free points...... obviously.

I hate to be the bad news guy, but we're going to have to basically go nearly undefeated the rest of the way or win our conference tournament to get into the NCAAs. You can't lose 4 straight games early in the season in the MVC and hope to get an at-large with 7-8 losses.

Yea, a little of this is probably an over-reaction on my part, but most of it is 100% true unfortunately.

A lot of truth and a lot of fallacy in this post.

True, we are relying too much on the 3. We need to score in the paint more to try and open things up.

False, we aren't getting contributions from players (at least those on the floor).

Truth, No VanVleet isn't the only problem.

False, we've been without good big men.

Truth, 7-8 losses won't get us an at large.

False, we have to go nearly undefeated.

[ShockerPhi]

A lot of truth and a lot of fallacy in this post.

True, we are relying too much on the 3. We need to score in the paint more to try and open things up.

False, we aren't getting contributions from players (at least those on the floor).

Truth, No VanVleet isn't the only problem.

False, we've been without good big men.

Truth, 7-8 losses won't get us an at large.

False, we have to go nearly undefeated.

Final Four team had 8 losses. And had a 3 game losing streak to a few bad Valley teams.

[wufan]

Final Four team had 8 losses. And had a 3 game losing streak to a few bad Valley teams.

23-8 for a Valley team puts us squarely on the bubble. Not sure what the exact number is, but the truth is that we have to win a lot of games yet. The fallacy is that undefeated, or almost undefeated isn't required.

[ShockerEngineer]

Final Four team had 8 losses. And had a 3 game losing streak to a few bad Valley teams.

Including at home vs Evansville.. At the time, if someone had told me that team would make the final four, I'd have thought they were crazy.

[Dave Stalwart]

If this year's team ends up 20-10, doesn't win the MVC and misses the dance...

Just for fun, imagine how awful we would have been if Ron and Fred had left for the pros.

And I disagree a little bit with the idea that we are on thin ice already. I think once WSU starts winning and gaining steam, we will be a popular story in the media. As long as we do end up getting better when players start getting healthy, people will be watching us like a hawk. We will get in the dance at large on the "eye test" a lot easier this year than in years past. We do have to take care of some business, but we will be like last year's Texas and UCLA teams that had like 60 rpi's and got in on name alone. We will be hated by mid majors everywhere :)

[pinstripers]

8 losses is a bubble team

[WstateU]

8 losses is a bubble team

[WstateU]

If this year's team ends up 20-10, doesn't win the MVC and misses the dance...

Just for fun, imagine how awful we would have been if Ron and Fred had left for the pros.

And I disagree a little bit with the idea that we are on thin ice already. I think once WSU starts winning and gaining steam, we will be a popular story in the media. As long as we do end up getting better when players start getting healthy, people will be watching us like a hawk. We will get in the dance at large on the "eye test" a lot easier this year than in years past. We do have to take care of some business, but we will be like last year's Texas and UCLA teams that had like 60 rpi's and got in on name alone. We will be hated by mid majors everywhere :)

Hilarious post on mvcfans.com…

“by Cdizzle » November 30th, 2015, 3:08 pm

WSU is going to Evansville the s*** out of the league. In a year when Evansville may actually compete for the league title.

The irony.”

[WSUwatcher]

Jerry Palm thought eight losses made the Final Four group a bubble team, pin, but he was pretty much the only one. Go back to the baracketology-type posts regarding that team and see how many of the bracket matrix pundits thought WSU wouldn't get in -- it was a tiny fragment.

This team isn't going to end up 12-6 in a competitive but not terribly imposing Valley, it isn't going to fail to win both the regular season and conference tournament, it isn't going to have a three game losing streak in league play including some genuinely bad losses. And contrary to what the paranoid crowd believes, it is going to get consideration for having its full lineup together and healthy at the end of the year (assuming that's the case, of course), and for having played the Orlando tournament without FVV or Frankamp (and the Iowa debacle without Grady as well).

WSU does have to take care of its business, obviously, and to live up to expectations once the reinforcements arrive -- no question. They can't just say, "Look at us: we are Wichita State!" and expect a spot. But there's absolutely no reason to doubt that things will be taking a dramatic turn for the better, and soon. Come March, the eye test will far more likely be favoring the Shocks than working against them. And even if they do end up underseeded by a line or two, the stories that follow the selections will be about how WSU is one of those teams no one wants to have to face.

[SB Shock]

Final Four team had 8 losses. And had a 3 game losing streak to a few bad Valley teams.

This is not the same MVC as of that year. Besides UNI win vs UNC, the MVC is underachieving and has a losing record in OOC. WSU is running out of opportunities for quality wins. No quality wins, no at-large.

Right now 21-8 gives WSU projected RPI in mid-40's. That is WSU margin at the moment. WSU can do better than that, but they need Fred back, CF to be who we think he can be and the young player to grow up quickly.

[Dave Stalwart]

8 losses is a bubble team

Unless you are KU

[im4wsu]

Unless you are KU

Quality losses to mediocre Big 12 teams

[FlyingWheat]

This is not the same MVC as of that year. Besides UNI win vs UNC, the MVC is underachieving and has a losing record in OOC. WSU is running out of opportunities for quality wins. No quality wins, no at-large.

Right now 21-8 gives WSU projected RPI in mid-40's. That is WSU margin at the moment. WSU can do better than that, but they need Fred back, CF to be who we think he can be and the young player to grow up quickly.

RPI is not adjusted for injuries, correct? While I understand the need for quality wins, I'm not totally convinced we wouldn't be seeded above our RPI due to the extreme injury circumstances.