Hawaii Pacific game thread

[1972Shocker]

Isn't the time to compare Ty to Clevin, Joe and Malcolm 2 or 3 years from now when he will be a Junior and a Senior (or a RS Sophomore and RS Junior) at least in terms of skills and leadership. Comparing Ty to those transfers at this point is a bit apples and oranges.

Now if the comparison is just in terms of body type and athleticism he is quicker and more athletic than any of those 3 guys. A comparison in just those terms that comes to mind is Preston Carrington.

Only time will tell how good of a basketball player he will be in terms of skill, leadership and smarts. I for one like his chances of being a standout.

[Kung Wu]

Isn't the time to compare Ty to Clevin, Joe and Malcolm 2 or 3 years from now when he will be a Junior and a Senior (or a RS Sophomore and RS Junior). Comparing Ty to those transfers at this point is a bit apples and oranges.

That's why I said Ty's junior year will equal Rag's senior year.

[Kel Varnsen]

There's some application of the transitive property here.

[ShockerFever]

I've never seen a Fr get critiqued quite as hard as Taylor in his very first Shocker game.

I don't think that's true. I think most of the stuff you're reading into is in response to several posters thinking he's the next coming of Fred Van Vleet. There's also several compelling arguments involving him and his role/rotation to the team THIS year. People suggesting a possible redshirt are automatically being labeled as "Taylor haters". That's simply not true. It's a matter of basic mathematics and physics.

Again, if he can consistently hit the quick 3 at the top of the key, then I don't think you'll hear many complaints. But if those quick, out-of-flow shots don't fall, then those become essentially turnovers. If he does in fact play again this year, I'd like to see how he continues to stack up taking those shots, especially against D-1 competition.

[wufan]

I don't think that's true. I think most of the stuff you're reading into is in response to several posters thinking he's the next coming of Fred Van Vleet. There's also several compelling arguments involving him and his role/rotation to the team THIS year. People suggesting a possible redshirt are automatically being labeled as "Taylor haters". That's simply not true. It's a matter of basic mathematics and physics.

Again, if he can consistently hit the quick 3 at the top of the key, then I don't think you'll hear many complaints. But if those quick, out-of-flow shots don't fall, then those become essentially turnovers. If he does in fact play again this year, I'd like to see how he continues to stack up taking those shots, especially against D-1 competition.

This. I really like Ty, but feel that a RS is a good idea BECAUSE the PG position is so hard to learn, and because I have him behind Conner at the point. We need three PGs, but I think Baker makes sense as #3. OTOH, I think Ty could help us this year and won't be disappointed if he plays significant minutes.

[wufan]

After all the criticism of Taylor I've seen, I decided to watch the game again. This time - watch the players - not the game.

I've been told that he shoots out of control and out of the flow of the game. His shot's too flat. He did nothing to run the offense. His guy kept blowing by him. And on and on. I've never seen a Fr get critiqued quite as hard as Taylor in his very first Shocker game.

Of taylor's 4 3-point shots, 4 were taken early in the shot clock. One was ill-advised. He dribbled down court, was uncovered at the arc and put it up. The other 3 were set plays where a screen was set for him. Maybe it's a new play, but the first thing was a screen for the PG. Taylor's defender went under the screen. Taylor shot the ball. He made 2 of 3 of those. Why set a shooting screen, if the guy with the ball isn't supposed to shoot the ball? I think those 3 shots, although early in the shot clock, were designed plays.

As to running the offense. He doesn't know the offense yet. 2 or 3 guys on the floor with him don't know the offense yet. How's he expected to run an offense when he and half the rest of the guys he's playing with don't know the offense.

I didn't see Taylor's guy blow by him. In fact, I saw Taylor work around screens so fast that his guy never really had an open look. He's so quick that he can make a minor mistake and recover before any damage is done. His footwork really looked good and his lateral movement was better than I'd expect of a Fr.

PG is the most difficult position for a Fr to learn. Marshall's system is one of the most difficult to learn. I think the criticism of Taylor is more than a little undeserved. Maybe he's really a combo guard. Maybe he's a shoot-first PG. Taylor is talented, athletic, and a knock it down shooter.

I did the same thing you did and posted my response one page back. On the quick threes, you are dead on that he got screens at the top of the key and his defender went under leaving him with open shots. Ty fired the shot and hit. I don't think it's a set play. I believe this is a common screen where most often we see the defender go over the top and the screener rolls to the basket. If I understand the offense at all, the screen allows the PG multiple options: pick and roll, drive left, pass right, pull back, or shoot. Fred would generally pick one of the options other than "shoot" on the first play (knowing there will be another good shot later in the possession), but his man doesn't generally go under the screen.

So, Ty can score, and those were open shots within the flow of the offense and he knocked them down. Still a little quick, but not a mistake. This type of offense (along with being a lefty) reminds me of Joe Ragland.

On the defensive end, he was mostly good. There absolutely was a play where his man blew right past him. Help defense ended the drive. Another play looked like a blown press. Taylor's guy was the one going to the basket with Taylor trailing close behind. Because of the camera angle (action off screen) you couldn't tell if Ty blew the coverage or it just looked like he did. A third time he got crossed over and his man went by, but he recovered a little faster than his man anticipated and disrupted the play. That's what speed do.

Shamet also got crossed over once and his man scored.

[forevershockerfan]

Taylor is a keeper. In High School, he broke the records of a player that played in the NBA. He seems quite confident and can score. I think he is very quick and can defend. I'm not sure he will be one of our best shooters but scoring he will do.

Here is where the rubber meets the road IMO. A part of me wants him to play because this will be a Season we have a great shot at having another incredible finish. Along the way, we have our toughest schedule and who knows what our bracket will bring us at the Dance. Thus, we will rely on our solid depth to get through foul issues, tough match-ups, and close games that will be up in the air until the final buzzer. Quality depth is an area that the Shocks continue shine and this may be our best group from top to bottom ever and we will need it.

Since Taylor has always played lots of minutes, would he rather sit out or understand fully that his minutes could be quite limited this Season. This is a close call IMO. It is obvious that Coach Marshall and Taylor will have a heart to heart about this very thing and make the prudent decision. Either way, Taylor is a keeper and it is great he is a Shocker.

[AZ Shocker]

I think you roll the dice with Taylor and all the newcomer's this season. Sure redshirt Nurger....but go strong this year with numbers. Obviously....there's a real opportunity this season!!!! Take the full squad to battle.

[Dan]

As for the numbers, Frankamp is out the first half this year, leaving only Ron as the backup PG. By letting Taylor play, he has a little time to get some experience before we start folding CF into the mix. As to next year, we all know it takes 1/2 year to integrate a JUCO PG. We can't take the risk of having CF as the lone point guard. If CF gets hurt, if Smith gets hurt or doesn't pan out, we could be shooting ourselves in the foot. I'd rather be safe than sorry. I realize that Shamet is also learning the role, but I'd rather have him at the 2 if it's an option.

[pinstripers]

I'd RS Nurger, Taylor, and one of the other freshmen.

[pie n eye]

This team looks ridiculously good. If there are 9 teams better than the Shockers then it's going to be very good year for college hoops.

As far as the redshirt discussion...it looks to me like all the Freshman are capable of contributing this year. I can make a case for redshirting two of them. I can also make a case for letting them play. In the end, there are only so many minutes to go around. I'm just glad I don't have to make the decision because they are all so talented.

[asiseeit]

In the end each individual player ( after council from staff ) should make the decision based on what
he believes is best for his career. I'm sure that is what RN did. I personally thought he would be
a significant contributor this season but certainly respect his decision. My own thought is that we
have plenty of depth at EVERY position. I think LS ad MM are ready to contribute right away and
will get significant minutes. Outside of those two I don't see many minutes for any of the other
freshmen especially after CF becomes eligible.

[1979Shocker]

I did the same thing you did and posted my response one page back. On the quick threes, you are dead on that he got screens at the top of the key and his defender went under leaving him with open shots. Ty fired the shot and hit. I don't think it's a set play. I believe this is a common screen where most often we see the defender go over the top and the screener rolls to the basket. If I understand the offense at all, the screen allows the PG multiple options: pick and roll, drive left, pass right, pull back, or shoot. Fred would generally pick one of the options other than "shoot" on the first play (knowing there will be another good shot later in the possession), but his man doesn't generally go under the screen.

So, Ty can score, and those were open shots within the flow of the offense and he knocked them down. Still a little quick, but not a mistake. This type of offense (along with being a lefty) reminds me of Joe Ragland.

On the defensive end, he was mostly good. There absolutely was a play where his man blew right past him. Help defense ended the drive. Another play looked like a blown press. Taylor's guy was the one going to the basket with Taylor trailing close behind. Because of the camera angle (action off screen) you couldn't tell if Ty blew the coverage or it just looked like he did. A third time he got crossed over and his man went by, but he recovered a little faster than his man anticipated and disrupted the play. That's what speed do.

Shamet also got crossed over once and his man scored.

Also, with the 30-second shot clock, his shots aren't as quick as they would have been last year if he was here then.

[im4wsu]

The crowd got loudest on two occasions, one at Wessel's 3-ball and the other when two shockers dove for the ball going out of bounds across from the shocker bench (I don't recall which two shockers it was, though). We fans do love hustle ... and Wessel!

[Cdizzle]

The crowd got loudest on two occasions, one at Wessel's 3-ball and the other when two shockers dove for the ball going out of bounds across from the shocker bench (I don't recall which two shockers it was, though). We fans do love hustle ... and Wessel!

Zach Bush and Ty Taylor.