2 for 1's

[proshox]

The guy that sits next to me goes nuts every time WSU has a 2 for 1 opportunity at the end of the first half. He insists WSU should not press, because it slows down the opponent's pass which delays the shot clock from starting it’s countdown.

The issue seems to be a pet peeve item for this normally logical fan, but it seems to be true. WSU has been fairly good at quickly taking and making shots with seemingly enough time to execute a 2 for 1, but our defenders are so good at denying the first pass that the game clock ticks away.

Also, this fan strongly believes in the inverse scenario: WSU should wait to inbounds the ball when the other team is trying to gain a 2 for 1.

What are your thoughts on this scenario and do you have any other tactical pet peeves that you would like to share?

[Cdizzle]

I always yell that we should go 3 for 1. It's way better than 2 for 1.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

I completely agree with the desire to go for more 2-for-1s. I think this is one of the biggest missed opportunities by coaches across D1. The inbounding the ball aspect is only a small piece of this concept. We could also discuss instructing players to look for their shot quicker, drive earlier in the shot clock, etc.

I'm interested to see what those who think otherwise have to say. Why do you think coaches don't make 2-for-1s a higher priority?

[AndShock]

I completely agree with the desire to go for more 2-for-1s. I think this is one of the biggest missed opportunities by coaches across D1. The inbounding the ball aspect is only a small piece of this concept. We could also discuss instructing players to look for their shot quicker, drive earlier in the shot clock, etc.

I'm interested to see what those who think otherwise have to say. Why do you think coaches don't make 2-for-1s a higher priority?

They don't go for 2-for-1s because in their mind, getting a "good" shot is more important than getting 2 shots. I don't agree with that line of thinking, but I'm curious to see what statistics would say, even though it's probably impossible to calculate due to many factors.

[DUShock]

THis is a good coach's show question. But it should be worded so that it is a request for instructional HCGM knowledge rather than telling coach he's missing something.

[Yellow Bellied]

Its situational dependent on the opponent and the momentum. The more even the scoring the more an extra possession counts, and the more the 2 for 1 makes sense. But If the flow of the game is more volatile and both teams are averaging 30 seconds between shots There is an advantage to taking your full 30 seconds and leaving the other team with 10-15 instead of rushing 2 of yours and giving your opponent the full clock to work with.


in my observation Gregg values taking momentum into the locker room and will gladly take one successfully drawn up play and score (which is why he burns that last time out under a minute) rather than pushing Fred to make a 2 for 1 happen and saving the time out so the D doesn't have a chance to get set.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

1 good shot being better than 2 bad shots sounds like a fair theory, but I just don't think it plays out that way most times.

Nobody is suggesting the 2-for-1 involve jacking up a 30ft contested 3-pointer. However, let's say there are 55 seconds to go...

Option 1: Run a normal offense, get a "good shot", and probably leave the other team with plenty of time for a full possession to finish the half.

Option 2: Quickly drive to the basket or take a pull-up 3 if they are playing back (Baker or FVV are good options for this), giving the opponent the ball with approx. 45 seconds remaining. This allows for another possession at the end of the half which should begin with atleast 10 seconds, maybe even more.

If the possession in option 1 results in a FG that will be made 40-45% of the time, then all option 2 needs is a couple of 25% opportunities to become the better option. I'm convinced that a quick shot, although not as good as a full possession, is still going to score 25-35% of the time. If the defense somehow forces Baker or FVV into trouble, they don't have to take a terrible, off balance shot. They aren't in a "shoot no matter what scenario". I just think they should be driving up the court quickly with 55 seconds to go with a "shoot quickly if at all possible" mindset. Too often, it seems players (all teams, not just WSU) tend to walk the ball up in this scenario and not even try for the 2-for-1.

[proshox]

Just to clarify, it has been clear throughout HCGM's tenure that he likes 2 for 1s. The suggestion in my original post is that our press defense after the "made" basket is preventing us from getting the second shot.

[1972Shocker]

Just to clarify, it has been clear throughout HCGM's tenure that he likes 2 for 1s. The suggestion in my original post is that our press defense after the "made" basket is preventing us from getting the second shot.

The most it can delay it is 4.9 seconds. That could be key in certain circumstances and not so much in others. For example, if their are 60 seconds left after the made basket it probably isn't a big deal. I their are only 45 seconds left then that 4.9 seconds would be of value.

[kochHead]

THis is a good coach's show question. But it should be worded so that it is a request for instructional HCGM knowledge rather than telling coach he's missing something.

Yes, you will need to walk on eggshells. Seriously, asking a legit question on that show could get you blasted. Love Gregg, but he will lose his **** if your question involves the following:

Playing time of a specific player

Why a player did not play (you will get your ass handed to you)

Why a TO was not taken at X moment in time

Free Throws (don't even try this one...your body will be found in the Arkansas River and they will never find your wife and kids)

[shockmonster]

Yes, you will need to walk on eggshells. Seriously, asking a legit question on that show could get you blasted. Love Gregg, but he will lose his **** if your question involves the following:

Playing time of a specific player

Why a player did not play (you will get your ass handed to you)

Why a TO was not taken at X moment in time

Free Throws (don't even try this one...your body will be found in the Arkansas River and they will never find your wife and kids)

Good Luck with your important questions. I'm a broken record but I'm happy to not get some questions answered as long as we win 150 games with 45 losses in the past 6 years and a consistent Top 20 Ranking. I don't want to go back.

[1979Shocker]

THis is a good coach's show question. But it should be worded so that it is a request for instructional HCGM knowledge rather than telling coach he's missing something.

I'm sure his kids already told him about it after reading it here.

[Ricardo del Rio]

I'm sure his kids already told him about it after reading it here.

Hello Kellen.

[WSUwatcher]

Maybe that's the ticket, Ricky. Kellen can ask him -- he can probably get away with it.

[Aargh]

No thoughts from me on this. WSU has a highly paid guy who makes these decisions.

This is a message board. Message boards are where fans express their opinions and other fans express their agreement, disagreement, disgust, and contempt for those opinions.

Posts like the one I've quoted tend to stifle discussion. Once the "trust Marshall" card is played, that pretty much ends the conversation. There's not much that can be said following that, that's not going to be interpreted as not trusting Marshall.

"What if" scenarios can be great for discussion, but if the "what if" is anything other than what some posters feel is Marshall's strategy, those posters play the "you don't trust Marshall" card, and the discussion ends.

Let me give an example. I don't like 6' shooting guards. I'm not fond of 6' PG's unless they are blazing quick or have other skills that elevate them above typical players at their height. 6' guards typically struggle on defense because opponents just shoot over the top of them. Turgeon even mentioned that as a problem for Brauer, and I loved Brauer's game. He had intangibles, but he could be exploited on D by taller players.

I watched every AAU game FVV played the summer after his Jr year in HS. FVV is not blazing quick, but his "other skills" category was off the charts.

Next year there will be three 6' guards on the roster. My lack of enthusiasm for 6' guards has been construed as I don't trust Marshall, because if I trusted him, I'd love 6' guards.

I trust that Marshall recruits the best available talent he can get to WSU.