Wichita State vs Hawaii

[ShockerEngineer]

Kind of getting tired of hearing about this team isn't as good as last year, more so from the media and other fans than ours, but still.

Where is that kind of scrutiny for every other team not named Kentucky? Just sayin'....we're not, so what? We still win. A LOT.

Yeah, really.. It's like having a great president and then everyone criticizing the next one for not being as good. We set the bar extremely high last year. And if my memory serves me correctly, we had mostly returning players. Their growing pains would have been weathered the previous season (probably during the losing streak in the final four season).

[Fozzy]

Misc Observations:

- was kind of nervous when Ron picked up his 2nd foul with 10 minutes to go in the 1st half. Was surprised to see him back in before halftime and that was a gutsy call by HCGM and we needed him in there at the time as I think we were down 5 and things turned around before half. Also, he had an off day shooting but had some big defensive plays

- the Ronnie thing by the announcer was annoying like others have said. Found this on Twitter - Roxy Bernstein @roxybernstein @ShoxCheer @RDB_sh31ox The next time I call him Ronnie it will be the first. Dino knows him well, I don't. - maybe Dino will call him Ron Thursday night instead.

- thought Hawaii had a few traveling violations not get called. Refs may have been too busy focusing on fouls instead.

- the last play seems to be our trademark final play in close games - have Fred dribble to the right and look to penetrate and dish, or if it's not there, take a 3. I imagine the opposing coaches tell their players to watch out for it and we'll see a team trap him at some point or force him left.

- will be interesting to see how big of a crowd shows up for Thursday night's game.

[another shocker]

you have to be able to counter punch (offensive rebounds) if you want to win the tough games. see: rashard kelly putback for game-winner vs. hawaii

hey, hawaii did themselves proud. great atmosphere. great game. if hawaii u. can bottle that effort..

[WSUwatcher]

I wouldn't be surprised if other highly successful teams get that sort of scrutiny, Doc -- we just aren't around to watch it with them the way we do with WSU.

But you're right; it really doesn't matter. Just keep winning somehow, keep getting better and deeper (which is happening before our eyes with Kelly and now Zach Brown, just to name two who have stood out in Hawaii), and get Cotton healthy and Baker shooting the way he normally does. Chances are things will look brighter by March than they do now -- they certainly looked better for the Final Four team at the end after seeming fairly dim for a while, didn't they? -- and life will go on regardless. And whatever happens, things will look better at the end with wins in these close games than they would have looked with losses instead.

There's something to be said for just winning.

[kochHead]

Misc Observations:


- thought Hawaii had a few traveling violations not get called. Refs may have been too busy focusing on fouls instead.

This. One was so bad he literally dragged his pivot foot two feet with no call.

[Cdizzle]

1. We have to revisit this every year. Sometimes like 8 times a year. ROAD GAMES ARE HARD. The Top 10 is 1-2 on the road this week. #11 is 1-0. I'll let you guess which one of those 4 teams played without a starter.

2. I'm so tired of the "they aren't talented but they are good" narrative. It's bullsh!t. And it certainly doesn't apply to this team. This isn't a Mercer squad that has been building to this run for 4 years. This is sustained success over multiple graduation cycles, the kind that you get with reloading TALENT. A "they are very talented but very young" narrative would actually be more accurate.

3. The media, and especially the ESPN media need to quit comparing this team to last year's WSU team and start comparing them to their peers, the current Top 20. It's a much more relevant and a much more fair comparison. Saying "this year's team isn't as good as last year's" adds nothing.

4. This tournament may still be paying off in 3 years. The never quit, never stop, never resign to a loss attitude of the veterans is rubbing off very strongly on a few of the new guys. Not only are they experiencing it, they are taking part in it.

5. No, Evan Wessel is not Cle. But there is a reason he was starting for this team. Does anyone think we have 11 1st half turnovers and give up 79 points (70 in regulation for the 1st time) if he is starting? Because I don't.

[shocksrbest]

we just seemed "off" on both sides of the ball. We seemed to lack the "Play Angry" that has served us so well.

I agree with these two points. We all knew that Cle would be sorely missed this year, but didn't know how or how much it would affect our other players. We are seeing that void in games like this--we've had 3 one-point games already this year.

Opponents know our strengths and are game planning around stopping our guards. That said, we have not done a good job of hitting open shots or free throws consistently. We are no longer an unknown and, based on the tears shed last night, we are still everyone's Superbowl.

We knew it would take a while to adjust to all of these factors--especially with all of the new guys we had coming in, but it is happening and Kelly, Brown and a few others are helping to erase those deficiencies.

Besides, despite us not playing stellar BB, we're still 10-1. We will be fine.

Merry Christmas.

[Kung Wu]

We shot 77.8% from the charity stripe?! Why didn't it FEEL like that??

[jocoshock]

We shot 77.8% from the charity stripe?! Why didn't it FEEL like that??

Key statistics: A good night from the foul line helped the Shockers survive other shortcomings. WSU made a season-high 28 of 36 free throws (a season-best 77.8 percent). In a gym where teams fear Island referees, WSU outscored the home team by 11 points from the line.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/sports/college...#storylink=cpy

It did feel like it until the last few minutes of regulation. At one point we were 12-14.

[Veritas]

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/shockwaves/article4917687.html

Interesting picture. It's all the young guys coming of age by celebrating their contributions to Shocker Basketball.

[_kai_]

Cotton may be my favorite Shocker ever, but right now he is not playing like Cotton. Wonder what's up?

He has that injury to his middle finger, and then he's still battling his tweaked ankle that he tweaked in I think South Dakota warmup line. He's tweaked the ankle at least two times during games over the past few games. He tweaked it again last night in the first half.

[_kai_]

This. One was so bad he literally dragged his pivot foot two feet with no call.

I was SCREAMING at the TV when I saw that. It was egregious it was so blatant.

Also, the call at the end of regulation where the ball got tipped out of bounds in the corner of baseline and their bench, and the ball clearly was off the Hawaii player, and I'm not misusing "literal" here, but the ref was LITERALLY 1 foot from the action and he hesitates to make the call. He looks up down at the ref way behind the play and nods in agreement that it's Hawaii ball. WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?! Just total incompetence in that game.

[calfan]

My Observations:

This team's play last night was a reflection of what I saw in predictions yesterday on the message board.
Hawaii is just like LMU and WSU wins easy.

That is how WSU played defense last night. The team thought they had an easy win and just had to show up and go through the motions.
The defense was nothing like LMU the night before.
Hawaii shot 26-55, 44% from the field, and 10-23 and 43.5% from 3.
That won't get it done most nights defensively.

Cotton concerns me. He had 3 assists and 3 turnovers.
He was 2-9 from the field and 1-5 from 3.

On the positive side, Kelly literally snatched victory from the jaws of defeat.
He is getting better.

Brown has had 2 really good games in a row.
This is what I thought he could bring from day 1.

Nurger also had a good blocked shot and 5-7 from the line.
The team free throw shooting was better.

The defense wasn't good last night and I didn't think WSU was ready to play.

It's a good team that can learn from a loss.
It is a great team that can learn from a win.

I think there are 2 elite teams right now, Kentucky and Duke.
WSU is in the list of teams below that.

Where we are in that pack is yet to be determined.

[asiseeit]

Looking back now at the game I realize how much I am enjoying watching the new guys
develop one game at a time. Considering we played without EW, RB for much of the first
half, DC both halves, and a banged up TC, I'll take the road win anyway we can get it.
Valuable minutes for the newbies and they responded. Practices pay off. JRS entered the
game to get in Flemings face and he did - obviously GM has confidence in him defensively.

[Dave Stalwart]

I think our lack of Darius was HUGE. The trouble is, he didn't actually commit as many fouls as he got called for, and the ones that were called were at very inopportune times for the team. He was all but eliminated from the 2nd half. Well, guess what this teams biggest weakness is? The interior. You take out Evan Wessel with an ankle injury and watch some refs remove Darius from the game, and we will struggle.

Our lack of toughness and experience inside is why the game was so difficult to get going in. These are the kind of games good teams end up losing. We didn't. Plus, our newcomers are getting tons of time in this particular tournament to gain important, high-stress experience. They are succeeding, so far. That will certainly pay off later this season. Hopefully, we can finish this thing off against a very good GW team. This next game will definitely be a tough one and a valuable one on our schedule.