Candid Look

[Aargh]

Last year FVV made everybody else look better. It's pretty much ignored that the 3-headed monster in the post and Early made FVV look better.

FVV looks a step slow and lacking confidence compared to last year. Last year opponents had to sell out guarding Early and had to double down on the 3-headed post monster. This year they ignore Wessel and sort of half-way play the doubles on Carter to leave defenders in position to double on Baker and VanVleet.

Wessel is one hell of a man and one hell of a hustle player, but he gets ignored by opponents when the Shox have the ball. The rest of the team is playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end. That leaves an extra defender to cut off penetration by FVV and Baker.

Early could pull a big out to the perimeter. The 3-headed post monster last year could screen the other big, giving FVV a path to the goal. I don't think Carter is as strong on screens as Lufile or Coleby. Wessel might not draw a defender if he was standing unguarded on the block. Defenses ignore him.

Cutting off perimeter penetration and putting defenders on the 3-point shooters isn't that tough when the defense only has to guard 4 guys.

At this point in the season, FVV is not looking like an AA player. He's looking like a good MVC PG. The challenge this year isn't replacing the stat sheet contributions of the guys who graduated. The challenge is to replace what those guys did to defenses that opened things up for our perimeter players.

[Dave Stalwart]

AARGH'S A WITCH! BURN HIM!!!

:)

[WSUwatcher]

I think you're overstating the extent to which teams play off Wessel, but one answer to that -- and we've started seeing more of it lately, although it may be postponed for a while now because of his ankle injury, is for him to shoot more. His shot seems to be returning, and he also seems to have regained confidence in it to a considerable degree, so now he needs to start firing away. A few nights of four of five threes from Wessel should eliminate the temptation to play off him and overplay FVV and Baker, and such nights are within his capability if he's willing to take the shots.

As for VanVleet, there's no doubt he's having a tougher time of it so far this season than last. But he's smart, resourceful, and competitive, so he should be able to adjust -- and as the supporting cast gets better this year, which it will, his job will become easier. (He also looks better when Baker's and Cotton's shots are falling.) Now he needs to go back to shooting FTs the way he did against Seton Hall, or last year

[The Mad Hatter]

The thing that makes FVV great is also the thing that makes him vulnerable to being disproportionately hurt by playing with a bunch of young bigs. What he does well is run a system flawlessly, not take over a game with raw athleticism. A pure athlete could survive having raw teammates as long as they can get in iso situations, but if what you do great is run the system, it can all be undone by a single guy not getting to his spot or making the right read. Ron has been less affected because more of his game is rising up over the defense to score.

The good news is that this should be very correctable. The new guys don't need to be dominant in the low post, they just have to be aware of what the system is asking of them so that they are in the right place to set a key screen or receive a pass for an easy basket when the defense rotates to Ron or Fred. No school for a month - this is the time for that learning to take place.

[pie n eye]

And yet the shockers are a bounce away from 9-0 against currently #8 rated non conference schedule. Even if I agree with everything you said, which I don't, I'm not really sure what your point is. Of course it's going to take time for the team to gel completely, it always does. Considering that were working in an entirely new front court rotation I'm pleased with the progress. Carter has been unstoppable when on the court. Wessell has contributed significantly despite what the Shockernet naysayers want us to believe. Rashard Kelly. Shaq Morris has provided solid minutes when Darius is in foul trouble and I feel like he's very close to busting out like Rashard. Rauno has played well on both ends of the court at times.

If I remember correctly there was plenty of grumbling about Lufile and Coleby last year. Now all of a sudden they've turned into Anthony Davis and Manut Bol. Even Cle caught his fair share of criticism over the past two years.

Sounds to me like you want to reduce or eliminate playing time for Wessell and Van Vleet. I think that would be a poor decision. We would not be 8-1 without Fred. It's as simple as that.

[Shockeriffic]

AARGH'S A WITCH! BURN HIM!!!

:)

Let's tie a millstone around his neck and throw him in the river. If he's guilty, he'll sink.

[Shock Top]

FREDDIE VAN VLEET IS A F***ING WINNER!!!!

I'LL RIDE OR DIE WITH HIM ANY DAMN DAY!!!!

[molly jabali]

And yet the shockers are a bounce away from 9-0 against currently #8 rated non conference schedule. Even if I agree with everything you said, which I don't, I'm not really sure what your point is. Of course it's going to take time for the team to gel completely, it always does. Considering that were working in an entirely new front court rotation I'm pleased with the progress. Carter has been unstoppable when on the court. Wessell has contributed significantly despite what the Shockernet naysayers want us to believe. Rashard Kelly. Shaq Morris has provided solid minutes when Darius is in foul trouble and I feel like he's very close to busting out like Rashard. Rauno has played well on both ends of the court at times.

If I remember correctly there was plenty of grumbling about Lufile and Coleby last year. Now all of a sudden they've turned into Anthony Davis and Manut Bol. Even Cle caught his fair share of criticism over the past two years.

Sounds to me like you want to reduce or eliminate playing time for Wessell and Van Vleet. I think that would be a poor decision. We would not be 8-1 without Fred. It's as simple as that.

While not disparaging Aargh's total post, I DO think we forget the early 'struggles' of last year.....but it was your line about turning into Anthony Davis that made me laugh...those guys, God bless 'em, were , in the immortal words of Dennis Green, "who we thought they were..."

[GoShox]

FVV
PPG RPG APG
11.6 3.9 5.4

Vs

Pangos
PPG RPG APG
10.4 2.8 5.4


Yeah FVV Is terrible, yet he outplaying. Who everyone considers one if the premier guards in the country. Didn't have the steals stat either, but pretty sure it's not close.

I say cut him and let's move on to someone more competent.

[wufan]

I think it's reasonable to critique FVV. Our expectations are what seem somewhat unreasonable as he is one of the 5 or ten best PGs in the country. If his percentages were up, he'd be #1.

[shocka khan]

I think Aarg has several good points.

The one I agree with the most is that our bigs and their impact on the team.

That being said, we don't have much experience up front, so we haven't had many options.

With Kelly's progress, I think you will be seeing him in the starting lineup soon. If not, we may have issues at tournament time.

Another priority is to bring the other young big guys so we have some depth up front.

I think we will be ready come tourney time, but it will be interesting watching it unfold.

[jdshock]

FVV
PPG RPG APG
11.6 3.9 5.4

Vs

Pangos
PPG RPG APG
10.4 2.8 5.4


Yeah FVV Is terrible, yet he outplaying. Who everyone considers one if the premier guards in the country. Didn't have the steals stat either, but pretty sure it's not close.

I say cut him and let's move on to someone more competent.

FVV has got roughly half a steal more per game than Pangos. FVV also has roughly .5 more turnovers per game, so between the two it's a moot point. Pangos has got a bit better of an A/T ratio because of that, but still it's pretty even. It looks like Pangos is doing quite a bit better shooting the ball then FVV this year. Especially when you take into consideration effective and true shooting percentages.

As a whole, the two are both doing really really well this year. I think we should lay off FVV for a bit, though. We can't blame his free throw shooting on anyone but him. Everything else, though, can just be a combination of new players and him receiving more defensive focus. I think we'd have at least three losses right now if we had the type of pointguard the chickenhawks usually have. If we're going to pin some of our struggles on FVV, we need to point out the wins that have come from him too. Against Alabama I think he was the key to our run that started the come back.

[Kung Wu]

FVV has shown a little frustration at times, but I have seen NO lack of confidence in his demeanor or play AT ALL. I think his half step off is due to guys not being where they should be. In other words our bigs are a half step off so FVV is forced to either A) hesitate until they get there or B) create something else. Having to create too often leads to turnovers, and having to hesitate too much leads to frustration.

Just a matter of time until this engine fires on ALL cylinders for a complete game, and when it does, we are going to witness awesomeness. I think we will hit our stride mid-Valley play, if Rashard and Nurger keep progressing. I still have hope for Shaq this season too.

March, and even April, could be very exciting this year.

[jdshock]

FVV has shown a little frustration at times, but I have seen NO lack of confidence in his demeanor or play AT ALL.

I think this is absolutely critical. He missed that shot against UK in the tournament, but he took the key shot against Utah and it went in this time. (unfortunately the rest of the game didn't work out) He has missed free throws, but he is going to get it together.

If he were lacking confidence, I'd be significantly more nervous.

[pinstripers]

I think you're overstating the extent to which teams play off Wessel, but one answer to that -- and we've started seeing more of it lately, although it may be postponed for a while now because of his ankle injury, is for him to shoot more. His shot seems to be returning, and he also seems to have regained confidence in it to a considerable degree, so now he needs to start firing away. A few nights of four of five threes from Wessel should eliminate the temptation to play off him and overplay FVV and Baker, and such nights are within his capability if he's willing to take the shots.

As for VanVleet, there's no doubt he's having a tougher time of it so far this season than last. But he's smart, resourceful, and competitive, so he should be able to adjust -- and as the supporting cast gets better this year, which it will, his job will become easier. (He also looks better when Baker's and Cotton's shots are falling.) Now he needs to go back to shooting FTs the way he did against Seton Hall, or last year

With EW possibly out for a while, folks are gonna play off Kelly even more.