Shockers vs. Alabama Game thread

[MadaboutWu]

I have been a little perplexed at how the wheels came off both Detroit and Alabama when we started pressing. Our press is good but probably not that good.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Even though we don't seem to be as dominant as we were last year and had a few scary games already, you gotta admit this is a special season so far. Just a lot more exciting. A very close over time loss, and now a few comeback wins under our belt. Wins don't come quite as easy, but man it sure is fun to watch.

Enjoy the ride.

Last year' non-conf included:
Led Western Kentucky by only 2 at the half
Trailed William & Mary by 1 at the half
Trailed Tennessee State by 1 at the half
Tied with Tulsa at the half
Trailed Oral Roberts by 8 at the half

This year's team has to prove that they can improve throughout the year like last year's team did, but at this point, I wouldn't be so quick to say that this year's team won't be just as dominant throughout the regular season.

[OregonShocker]

As varied as the analyses posted here are, I tend to agree with most of them. There is some truth in every analysis. My thoughts (after allowing my emotions to let me be objective) are that what we're seeing is less to do with our players as much as it is our opponents play. While last year's criticism of "soft scheduling" was blown out of proportion, there is truth to the statement that this year's opponents are better than last years. We're not going to look as sharp for 40 min against this level of competition. Yet, we still find a way to win. I also believe that looking back at the last year or two as a whole blinds us to the bumps we had during those seasons. Our FF run didn't start with dominating wins right out of the chute. I DO have concerns re: this year's tourney time. Our lack of true "bigs" in the paint (size, not effort) means the younger players need to develop steadily to allow for the aggressiveness to compensate for size. We're not there yet. But we can get there. And, lest I bring up a sore subject, I DO worry about free throws. The difference between good teams and great teams is free throws. If HCGM (and Mike Kennedy) aren't worried, I wonder if they would EVER worry about it. Cause, I'm there.

[OregonShocker]

-
-how many times did we pass to the corner and get caught in a trap?

I was always taught that you only pass to the corner to allow something to happen immediately: shot, drive, pass into paint. Otherwise, nothing good comes from a corner pass.

[shox1989]

If the Shockers hadn't shot great from the foul line last year at Alabama they would have lost that game. WSU was a freaking 25 of 27 from the FT line last season at Bama and they win by 72-67. Last night the Shocks were 8 of 17. If they had shot 13 of 27 last year (actually a slightly better percentage than last night), WSU would have lost by 7.

[1979Shocker]

I was always taught that you only pass to the corner to allow something to happen immediately: shot, drive, pass into paint. Otherwise, nothing good comes from a corner pass.

Yeah, but maybe the player shouldn't have been in the corner in the first place to take the pass. Or he should do what you said instead of holding onto the ball, which allows the defense to come over and double team him.

[wusphlash]

Yeah, but maybe the player shouldn't have been in the corner in the first place to take the pass. Or he should do what you said instead of holding onto the ball, which allows the defense to come over and double team him.

1) We were trapped in the corner way too often.
2) Passes to the corner have always been part of Gregg's offense.
3) This was part of a good Alabama game plan to use their length to trap the corner.
4) Yes, our guys were surprised and held on to the ball way too long.

[ShockerPhi]

Last year' non-conf included:
Led Western Kentucky by only 2 at the half
Trailed William & Mary by 1 at the half
Trailed Tennessee State by 1 at the half
Tied with Tulsa at the half
Trailed Oral Roberts by 8 at the half

This year's team has to prove that they can improve throughout the year like last year's team did, but at this point, I wouldn't be so quick to say that this year's team won't be just as dominant throughout the regular season.

That's a good point. I guess since the comebacks are coming much later in the game, it grabs at our attention more. Makes people worry easier.

[KC Shox]

Comparisons to last year's squad is natural, and questions as to why FVV isn't acting like himself on the court are reasonable. This team is a total 180 from last year's group. Last year's team had 7 guys who averaged 5 points or more per game. This year's group currently has 4. Not only has FVV and RB been dealt (justifiably so) Pre-Season All American status, but they are also having to shoulder the brunt of generating the offense. That's a lot of pressure on the two. FVV no longer has the opportunity to get a player like Cle a scoring chance. We lack a player with Cle's inside/out ability and obviously, Lufile and Coleby (while not strong scorers) still had to be respected by the opposing defense due to their size, rebounding proficiency and ability to go off if not guarded close.

This team is in the early stages of the learning curve. Years prior, RB, FVV and TC all had senior leadership that represented the brunt of scoring and rebounding. Now, they are the guys whom the younger ones are looking up to. A tougher non-con schedule this year, the target on our back gets bigger, lack of a front court and the pressure for the back court guys to pick up the slack all means early struggles. As Aaron Rodgers so eloquently quipped a few months back when people were doubting the Packers, "Relax".

[OregonShocker]

1) We were trapped in the corner way too often.
2) Passes to the corner have always been part of Gregg's offense.
3) This was part of a good Alabama game plan to use their length to trap the corner.
4) Yes, our guys were surprised and held on to the ball way too long.

Passes to the corner should be a part of any offense. BUT, you gotta do something IMMEDIATELY with it! Shoot it, pass it in, drive it...you CAN'T hold it! Alabama isn't the only team we'll play that will defend the corner with a trap.

[WSUwatcher]

About things being a little "off" -- one that struck me as odd last night was the offensive rebound Riley Norris grabbed for Bama right at the end of the first half that led to the tying basket, a play on which he outhustled Baker, who seemed to be waiting for the ball to arrive. Instead Norris snatched it almost out of Ron's hand. How often does that ever happen?

Similarly, FVV dribbled into jail a couple of times last night and failed to emerge with the ball (not to mention his foul shooting miscues). Maybe Ron and Fred are just so good and so solid that anything other than the best play stands out, so this may be just my own case of the unrealistic expectation syndrome. But I sure noticed it as I was watching, and it had me wondering, "Who are these guys? This can't possibly be the real Baker (or VanVleet, as the case may be) because he doesn't make this kind of mistake."

Damn -- they're human after all. I hate that.

[molly jabali]

Last year' non-conf included:
Led Western Kentucky by only 2 at the half
Trailed William & Mary by 1 at the half
Trailed Tennessee State by 1 at the half
Tied with Tulsa at the half
Trailed Oral Roberts by 8 at the half

This year's team has to prove that they can improve throughout the year like last year's team did, but at this point, I wouldn't be so quick to say that this year's team won't be just as dominant throughout the regular season.

Wow! Had forgotten that! Easy to get spoiled, I guess!

[LandStander]

For those freaking out comparing this year's team to last year's, a couple of thoughts to consider:

1. How quickly everyone forgets the number of non-con games we trailed at the half last year. Everyone was sure it was going to cost us a couple of games.
2. We are 8-1 against the #8 SoS in the country. #8. We have played a neutral game and two true road games. The one loss is by 1 point, in overtime, to a Top 15 team. There are very few teams (like one, if you include a Kentucky team that hasn't played a road game) that have done anything similar to that.
3. Perhaps we shouldn't spend every season going forward comparing teams to a squad that literally didn't lose. It just isn't very fair. We're talking about picking out weaknesses relative to the #2 team in the country last year. You can have a weakness or two compared to that team and still be a Top 5-15 team.

There are some weaknesses on this team. There are also some newcomers on this team with the exact skills and abilities needed to address those weaknesses. What they need is time and experience.

Last night was an awful lot of fun. And we just found our next winner. There are so many winners on this team that it was bound to wear off on the new players quickly, still it is great to see.

Great points! Great post! I also think Jans moving on was a huge blow. What game was it last year where Jans put Lufile against their best player late and Lufile's size bothered him for the rest of the game. Great call, very creative call. He was the Cleanthony of our coaches.

[Shoxfan11]

Last year' non-conf included:
Led Western Kentucky by only 2 at the half
Trailed William & Mary by 1 at the half
Trailed Tennessee State by 1 at the half
Tied with Tulsa at the half
Trailed Oral Roberts by 8 at the half

This year's team has to prove that they can improve throughout the year like last year's team did, but at this point, I wouldn't be so quick to say that this year's team won't be just as dominant throughout the regular season.

To be honest I don't remember any of those, especially trailing ORU by 8. Funny how easily getting those wins can make you forget..

[im4wsu]

Even though the five "starters" are returnees, they played only 19 minutes 23 seconds together as a unit last season. Less than one half of one game.

IMHO, I think part of the "off" sense is just trying to adjust. For example, Fred looks like he is dribbling too much because, perhaps, when he goes to make something happen, his teammates are a split-second early or a split-second late, so Fred backs out and sets up again. It may not be all Fred.