Lack of Blocks and an Inside Presence?

[ripemupshocks]

Our bigs are all so young besides DC. Maybe by the end of the year they will have a little more presence than they do now, but who knows. Honestly, I don't expect Bush to contribute much this year, if ever. He is tall and lengthy, but besides that has he really shown anything to make you think he will be able to contribute much? I mean, he wasn't even able to contribute much at the JC level. He is an interesting prospect, but I really don't see him passing any of our bigs for playing time. Even next year I'm not sure how much time he will see with everyone but DC coming back in the frontcourt.

Nurger is the one I am most excited about. I think he has the potential to be the best true big man we have had in a long time. He is so athletic for how big he his. He runs the floor so well. He already has range to his shot. He needs to get more physical and looks lost at times, but I'm excited thinking about what he will look like as a senior with 4 years of adding muscle to his frame and learning 3Gs system.

Have to agree. I think Nurger has great upside and a great future. I don't expect Bush will ever be anything more than a third stringer. I hate to say it, but we all know Bush is only here because the coaching staff missed on every center they went after. Had even one of those offers accepted, Bush wouldn't of sniffed a scholarship at WSU.

I know most here won't agree with this, but I hope 3G doesn't fall back on juco players to try and solve the problem at the 5. Relying exclusively on juco players means they have to bring in a good juco every season. One season to get acclimated (Jr), and one season as a starter (Sr), then he's gone. If they miss on even one season, they're screwed. Much better to focus on high school players, that way they have four seasons to work with instead of just two.

[top20shock]

Our bigs are all so young besides DC. Maybe by the end of the year they will have a little more presence than they do now, but who knows. Honestly, I don't expect Bush to contribute much this year, if ever. He is tall and lengthy, but besides that has he really shown anything to make you think he will be able to contribute much? I mean, he wasn't even able to contribute much at the JC level. He is an interesting prospect, but I really don't see him passing any of our bigs for playing time. Even next year I'm not sure how much time he will see with everyone but DC coming back in the frontcourt.

Nurger is the one I am most excited about. I think he has the potential to be the best true big man we have had in a long time. He is so athletic for how big he his. He runs the floor so well. He already has range to his shot. He needs to get more physical and looks lost at times, but I'm excited thinking about what he will look like as a senior with 4 years of adding muscle to his frame and learning 3Gs system.

I dont think Wamukota is below the coaches exoectations at all. He was expected to be a project and he is. Glass's size/weight was a known issue. He may or may not be meeting expectations. I would not write off just yet.

We will see. It's not a good sign when your 5 man who is a JC and has limited offense and experience can't play rim protector. Really what's the point? If he can't see the court this year with all the need for a defensive presence then he won't see it next year when new guys come in and the other bigs who can play now develop.

[1979Shocker]

I dont think Wamukota is below the coaches exoectations at all. He was expected to be a project and he is. Glass's size/weight was a known issue. He may or may not be meeting expectations. I would not write off just yet.

Marshall said that Wamukota has been making strides in practice.

[Dan]

Marshall said that Wamukota has been making strides in practice.

That's a first step. Let's see if he can start making strides in games.

[wufan]

Have to agree. I think Nurger has great upside and a great future. I don't expect Bush will ever be anything more than a third stringer. I hate to say it, but we all know Bush is only here because the coaching staff missed on every center they went after. Had even one of those offers accepted, Bush wouldn't of sniffed a scholarship at WSU.

I know most here won't agree with this, but I hope 3G doesn't fall back on juco players to try and solve the problem at the 5. Relying exclusively on juco players means they have to bring in a good juco every season. One season to get acclimated (Jr), and one season as a starter (Sr), then he's gone. If they miss on even one season, they're screwed. Much better to focus on high school players, that way they have four seasons to work with instead of just two.

I think we got Bush because he has huge upside. The clock may run out before he reaches it, but it's there. The staff signed Bush VERY early. I think that counters the possibility that he was signed due to missing on others.

[shockmonster]

This is way too early to jump to conclusions on players. I don't believe at all that Coach has given up on anyone. He will work with them and help them improve their game until the end. We can't read the future (player injuries could happen, family problems that call them home, discipline problems, make drastic improvements/digressions in their game, decide that they want to go somewhere where they can get more minutes, NBA calls, etc.). A million things can happen and we need to stop the speculation on kids lives that are nothing but possible rumors that are often started on this social medium, and have no basis in fact. Just my opinion.
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[jocoshock]

This is way too early to jump to conclusions on players. I don't believe at all that Coach has given up on anyone. He will work with them and help them improve their game until the end. We can't read the future (player injuries could happen, family problems that call them home, discipline problems, make drastic improvements/digressions in their game, decide that they want to go somewhere where they can get more minutes, NBA calls, etc.). A million things can happen and we need to stop the speculation on kids lives that are nothing but possible rumors that are often started on this social medium, and have no basis in fact. Just my opinion.
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Shared...

[Blackmag]

I think Bush was always viewed as a project...they knew he had some potential as a guy who could perhaps give them 8-10 minutes a game. I think during league play he will see more time and who knows what kinda progress he can make by the end of the year and next year. Orupke took time, but he did have a very nice final year. I think we will get some production from Bush before the years up.

[Aargh]

I think we got Bush because he has huge upside. The clock may run out before he reaches it, but it's there. The staff signed Bush VERY early. I think that counters the possibility that he was signed due to missing on others.

I followed the Recruiting Forum. Marshall was in on many, many JuCo and HS bigs. Maybe Wamukota was signed "early", but the ship had sailed on the main prospects before Wamukota was signed.

Glass was a "who can we get for the last scholarship" player. He's still a "who can we get for the last scholarship" player.

I've taken a ton of crap for saying that there's a recruiting hole in the front court. When the only true front court player with any D1 experience is a 6'7" guy, that's on Marshall's recruiting. When there's 1 player on the roster taller than 6'4" with any D1 experience - that's on Marshall.

Sophomers and Juniors on the roster taller than 6'4" are Zach Bush, Tevin Glass, and Bush Wamukota. Continual reliance on front court JuCo's is like MSU's continual reliance on hiring assistant coaches. Sometimes it works and they're gone. Sometimes it doesn't work and you've got dead weight.

Last year Marshall went after every big post player he could find. He ended up with two of the last 3 positions on the bench and a Fr with some promise. That's not what a top-20 program should have as the only post players other than one Senior. The Fr with some promise was a last-minute miracle.

I'm more than a little tired of getting beat up on if I point out what appears to be obvious misses in Marshall's recruiting.

[wufan]

I followed the Recruiting Forum. Marshall was in on many, many JuCo and HS bigs. Maybe Wamukota was signed "early", but the ship had sailed on the main prospects before Wamukota was signed.

Glass was a "who can we get for the last scholarship" player. He's still a "who can we get for the last scholarship" player.

I've taken a ton of crap for saying that there's a recruiting hole in the front court. When the only true front court player with any D1 experience is a 6'7" guy, that's on Marshall's recruiting. When there's 1 player on the roster taller than 6'4" with any D1 experience - that's on Marshall.

Sophomers and Juniors on the roster taller than 6'4" are Zach Bush, Tevin Glass, and Bush Wamukota. Continual reliance on front court JuCo's is like MSU's continual reliance on hiring assistant coaches. Sometimes it works and they're gone. Sometimes it doesn't work and you've got dead weight.

Last year Marshall went after every big post player he could find. He ended up with two of the last 3 positions on the bench and a Fr with some promise. That's not what a top-20 program should have as the only post players other than one Senior. The Fr with some promise was a last-minute miracle.

I'm more than a little tired of getting beat up on if I point out what appears to be obvious misses in Marshall's recruiting.

I've disagreed with the recruiting hole previously, so I'm asking for some clarification. In hindsight, what should Marshall have done? Who is the player/players Marshall should have signed but didn't? I don't see a recruiting hole because we have 6 players capable of playing the 4/5. What I see is a lack of experience, and I see that as acceptable since we went with Lufile/Coleby/Early/Hall/Orukpe in the paint the last two years, and those are guys that helped us to a 65-10 record over that time. We could have more experienced sophomores and juniors in the paint this year had he gone with high school kids, but we would not have been as good the last two years and they would have been at a lower all level equal to our recruiting profile at that time.

[Dan]

I can see Aarghs point about the hole. In hindsight we could've gone after a freshman instead of offering Lufile and/or Coleby. But then would we have had the same success we had last year?

[Play Angry]

You guys really should stop persecuting Aargh so ruthlessly at every turn, he's going to get a complex or something.

[proshox]

Aargh is correct that there is a hole in our roster. That part isn't debatable - the team lacks experienced bigs that provide a defensive & rebounding presence.

Where I disagree with Aargh is his insinuation that our current roster problem is because of a flawed long term strategy. Unfortunately, very few teams can go year after year without exhibiting at least one glaring weakness. In the short term WSU has that glaring weakness, but I still have hope it will be addressed one game at a time and we will be better off in the long run.

Bottom line - For some reason, none of the bigs we really wanted and needed accepted offers to WSU. I can't fault HCGM, because all he needed was one great Juco transfer and his track record with Jucos should have given him inside recruiting position. The program's overall success should have blown most recruits away. Somehow everyone decided there were better situations out there and we will have a weakness.

[pinstripers]

Sure we need a shotblocker. We also need a bigger guy at the 4. Perhaps by March we will have them.

[wufan]

Aargh is correct that there is a hole in our roster. That part isn't debatable - the team lacks experienced bigs that provide a defensive & rebounding presence.

Where I disagree with Aargh is his insinuation that our current roster problem is because of a flawed long term strategy. Unfortunately, very few teams can go year after year without exhibiting at least one glaring weakness. In the short term WSU has that glaring weakness, but I still have hope it will be addressed one game at a time and we will be better off in the long run.

Bottom line - For some reason, none of the bigs we really wanted and needed accepted offers to WSU. I can't fault HCGM, because all he needed was one great Juco transfer and his track record with Jucos should have given him inside recruiting position. The program's overall success should have blown most recruits away. Somehow everyone decided there were better situations out there and we will have a weakness.

This is my take as well. I don't think its lack of recruiting. Morris was brought in last year and the choice (correct in my opinion) was to develop him w/o burning a year of eligibility. Three guys graduated and we brought in three highly regarded freshman (with one developing at prep school) and two highly regarded JUCOs. I don't see that as a recruiting weakness, but rather a long term strategy that resulted in a down year at the beginning of a season. That same strategy netted us the two winningest seasons in Shocker history and has allowed for a strength at the guard position to carry us.