JUCO Guys

[Dan]

I find it intersting that 2 of the guys contributing the least are our 2 JUCOs, Wamukota and Glass. When I look back at past JUCOs, we had a lot of luck but were bringing in All-American caliber JUCOs (Early, Smith, Hall, Wiggins, Ragland, Carter, etc.). It makes me wonder what it was about these guys that made our staff want to sign them. I hope it wasn't a swing and a miss. Both of these guys could be getting prime time minutes if they had the stuff. I'm still venting from the loss and can't help but think that our recruitment needs to go into triple time on talented big men.

[Shocker-maniac]

I know that one miss was a JUCO big named Stephen Hurt that chose KState over WSU.

[wu_shizzle]

It's obvious we needed a 7' footer to defend/rebound against high level teams. Bush doesn't look too bad, and I'm glad we have him.

Tevin was a late signing that came from NWF (Forbes) when our first choices went elsewhere. Stephen Hurt is up and down for the Mildcats but he would have been helpful last night.

[_kai_]

Wamukota is a project, Glass wasn't an All-American, it is what it is if you ask me. We've been blessed with some stellar JUCO guys. I'd say we're in the upper echelon of success with JUCO players. We're the exception, not the rule. If this is the first class of JUCO's we've whiffed on, I think it's not bad at all considering all the previous classes. Also, I think this early in the season it's totally unfair to think it's even a possible whiff.

I think a good comparison could be the first Ragland year. We were trying to find ourselves at the point and couldn't figure it out with Joe, and they used Toure as the PG for a long while and it was ineffective, but probably was our best option. Similarly this year our biggest whole is the post, and these guys are having a tough time generating an outcome that we want. Ragland turned out pretty damn good, and it took some time.

[pie n eye]

Relax. Patience. Romulus wasn't built in a day.

[Dan]

I'm willing to give it time before getting too down on them. Lufile did almost nothing his junior year and was pretty dang solid as a senior so there's hope. What we would have done to have a Lufile in the middle last night.

[shockmonster]

Shaq and Kelly have shown bursts of success during their playing time. Give them Nurger, and Bush some time to develop. They are probably showing more to the coaching staff during practice and it will take some time before we see it during games. We are expecting them to be polished players during the first five games. They aren't 4 star recruits, nor All Americans but there is talent.

[pie n eye]

I'm willing to give it time before getting too down on them. Lufile did almost nothing his junior year and was pretty dang solid as a senior so there's hope. What we would have done to have a Lufile in the middle last night.

I'm more disappointed that Darius hasn't been able to stay on the floor this season. I don't buy the "he's undersized" argument. From my view point the majority of his fouls have been preventable.

There are a lot of ifs from last night but having Darius on the court 20 + minutes would have changed things significantly. It's not entirely reasonable to expect a big contribution from the freshmen and JUCOs in the 5th game of the year, 1st road test, top 25 opponent etc. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Darius to be on the court when we need him.

[forevershockerfan]

Was just discussing such matters with a buddy of mine. 3G has went with the starters we now have due to experience while

our 8 new players learn this complex offense. Wessel is more of a 3 but is playing the 4 and led our team with 9 rebounds last night.

When he regains his confidence and scores more points, this will be a plus. Carter is to me more of a 4 but plays the 5. Yes, we want him on the floor 25-30

minutes but his fouling denies this luxury for us. Kelly, Shaq, Nurger and Bush all show potential and still under the learning curve. Glass has a nice shooting

touch and can rebound but his minutes are very limited.

I also am impressed with Ria'n and Henderson and like the way they shoot the ball. Ria'n is doing well on both sides of the court and last Season's

practices with us is paying off. Henderson can really drain shots but must advance his defense and how to quarterback our team when he comes into

games. Brown may be another player that will blend in better by Valley time. All 13 of our players will get a fair shake. This quality depth will

pay dividends downstream. Who will step up and produce of the 8 new players? Stay tuned and we will know much more by Valley time.

[Aargh]

It's not realistic to expect a JuCo, or a Fr, to be really productive at this stage of the season, but those guys are the only option.

When a team returns exactly one player taller that 6'4", that's a problem. It's not fair to the new players to expect them to be the solution to the problem at this stage of their careers. They didn't create the problem - they just got stuck in it.

The Shox lost two 6'9" shot-blocking, rebounding tanks and a NBA draft pickfrom the front court, and had only one returning front court player. It was MANDATORY to sign at least 2 JuCo bigs who could contribute quickly. That did not happen.

I think we have some great front court prospects in the Fr class and in prep school. We needed some with D1 experience in the So or Jr classes, and we didn't have that. That's on Marshall and it isn't fair to the new players to criticize them for being new players. We needed experienced players, but there were none on the roster.

The lack of effective front court depth goes to recruiting over the last several years. Marshall is a great coach, but he has to take responsibility for not keeping the front court pipeline filled. He's not recruiting for a good finish in the MVC any more. If that were the only measuring stick, then starting a 6'4" PF in December would be perfectly fine.

Imagine this team if Wessel were the first off the bench and in the rotation with FVV, Baker, and Cotton.

[shockmonster]

This early in the season, prior to giving the players a chance to develop, one can be critical of Marshall if they prefer, but I will give him some benefit of the doubt. After all, we are used to him reloading ready made players for one year (this year we don't have a Kadeem Coleby), we lost out on a couple of more ready made recruits, and recruited Bush instead who may develop this year but probably could have used a redshirt year to help him. I'm hopeful that by March, post play is better and because of Gregg's record of 178-78 at Wichita State, I tend to give him a pass this year if we don't end up with a Top 10 team. Instead, I'm going to enjoy the All American status of our best players, Fred, Ron, and Tekele this year.

[Play Angry]

I imagine the frontcourt rotation will evolve a lot during MVC play. We have basically two 200+ RPI grenades or the equivalent thereof in the OOC (Newman and Loyola Marymount). By comparison, we'll have about 8 in conference play.

It's kinda the opposite of what we're used to- lots of on the job training after New Year's to build depth while we play our most polished units as much as possible before Christmas.

I'm fine with it. We'll have post depth by March.

[WSUwatcher]

Overreaction, which I suppose is understandable after losing a game -- after all, what's that?

Personally, I never expected Wamukota to be an instant impact player. As for Glass, I was also hoping for more, but considering that juco bigs usually take longer to develop than little guys do, it's not entirely surprising that it's taking some time. We're five games in, for heaven's sake, and the experience of Lufile is instructive. Besides, the guys WSU was interested in before signing Glass (Willie Atwood and Jordan *******) aren't exactly power players either; they're built much the way Tevin is.

I'm not sure why anyone is obsessing about jucos anyway. Cleanthony Early was the exception in terms of sheer talent, not the rule -- here or anywhere else -- and he still had his rough outings, especially (but not exclusively) early in his career; same with Carl Hall. But Glass and Bush aren't the only big options anyway, and I say that fully agreeing that Wessel isn't a real PF and Carter isn't an ideal center (although the size difference between him and Hall, the slightly miscast primary center on a Final Four team, is negligible). Shaq Morris is big and bulky enough to play center effectively, and he's had a year in the program; Nurger is plenty tall and has experience internationally and in a strong prep program, both of which put him ahead of the average freshman. If they aren't having a greater impact by February or March, I'll be surprised. Same with Rashard Kelly, who again isn't an average freshman, after spending time in an elite prep program, and certainly has the height and bulk to play PF.

The Shocks just came within a missed dunk or a couple of last second free throws from a guy who makes them more often than not, of beating the best team -- and a tall one at that -- they'll meet before the NCAA, and of doing it on the road, at altitude, less than a month into the season. And realistically, they weren't likely to go unbeaten into the tournament again anyway. There's no reason for panic.

[wufan]

One or two of the bigs (freshman or JUCOs) will develop over the next 4 weeks. One or two more will develop by January 2015. I'm not concerned at all. They were obviously outclassed against Utah, but the talent is readily apparent. They have to adjust to the speed and physicality. Once they do, we will have some weapons. Legitamately, we are one big short of a rotation. Carter is good. Shaq looks like a binaries back-up weapon. We are only missing a starting PF/C to get a strong three man rotation. Against the huge Utah line-up, Nurger had a couple of nice blocks, and Kelly had his third dunk off of an offensive rebound on the season. Those guys have the talent. It's only a matter of time.

[Shocker-maniac]

The best thing about freshmen is that by Feb they are no longer playing like freshmen. No need for panic. Give it time. By March, Morris, Kelly and Nurger will be light years ahead of where they are now.